The Right Skill Set with Jerome Myers and Andre Jernigan

Episode 73 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Jerome Myers and Andre Jernigan, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

Hey, we have Jerome on the line here, Andre, what do you want to ask him?

Andre Jernigan 0:04

How do you know when someone is ready to take that step of either some sort of formal education or mentorship?

Jerome Myers 0:10

I don't think you can start getting education too early dargan in education as soon as you can financially, if you think you need $100,000 in order to buy a building, and you don't have that, so you're not going to get educated. I think that you're selling yourself short. If you are able to get educated and you have the knowledge and you can differentiate between the lead and the deal, there is a high likelihood that you'll either be compensated for bringing that to somebody or you can get a piece of the ownership that is the gateway drug get that education.

Brian Briscoe 0:49

Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is journal entry number 73. And part of our Ask the Expert series. Today we have our first two time guests experienced investor Jerome Meyers and former professional baseball player Andre Jernigan. Keep listening for factors to consider deciding whether you should get a mentor and a discussion on the skills that are most important for success in real estate investing. And now the show Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe with four oaks capital. I'm really excited for today's show was one of our Ask the Expert episodes, we've got experienced investor Jerome Meyers on with us, along with aspiring investor, Andre Jernigan. Let's first introduce everybody to Jerome Myers. He leaves the Myers development group and he's on a mission to hold 1000 doors by the end of 2028. He is also a real estate investing coach using the Myers method of multifamily investing. And he's the host of two podcasts, dream catchers and Myers methods presents multifamily missteps. He also volunteers on STEM boards, which is science, technology, engineering and mathematics and enjoys travelling internationally. And one more thing that I'll add here is drome is also the host of the Mid Atlantic multifamily investing conference, which this year will occur between March 19 and march 21. So check that out. I hear it's going to be awesome. That said Jerome, welcome to the show. Brian.

Jerome Myers 2:28

It's always amazing to get online with you. You said this to me once I'm gonna turn it around on you. Every time I get off the phone with Brian brisco I feel better.

Brian Briscoe 2:36

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we're gonna both gonna be on Highs today, you know, high as a kite. But um, it's Incidentally, Jerome, I think you know this, but you know, you were the first guest on my podcast, and you're now the first two time guests on my podcast. So let's put some of those red pills around tonight. If you if you don't mind. Let's start out by talking about your background and your history and what what got you into this whole apartment thing?

Jerome Myers 2:59

Yeah, so the end of the story kinda is I'm a corporate america dropped out, went to good school got a good job. I was fortunate enough to break six figures when I was 26. I did that for a little bit, went to a consulting firm, and then another consulting firm. And then my last role in corporate America, I was leading a division of a fortune 550 company, we went from two employees to about 175, between January 13 and August 30. And then by the end of the year, you know, we had about $20 million of revenue and 30% profit margins in one year, one year, wow, it was pretty insane. The reward for that was a phone call that I had with my boss on Christmas Eve, and it was something along the lines of Jerome, we're going to do this, it's just a matter of whether or not you participate in the process, or somebody does it for you. And I recommend that you pick your team, because you got to go do this again next year. And I crumbled on the inside I struggle, you know, none of the engineering stuff that I did, fixed it for me, none of the training and the development made that part. Okay. But I did what I had to do, right, because that's what we're taught to do. Yeah. And so I spent between Christmas Eve in New Year's learning and re learning and trying to make a subjective or objective process to make sure that the peak performers were rewarded for the work that they've done over the past year. And the folks who maybe didn't work as hard, were the ones that were actually impacted by this decision. And fast forward to the end of the next year is two or three days before Thanksgiving. And I pull everybody together and say, Hey, don't spend your paycheck that you get on Friday on Black Friday, because I'm not sure what's going to happen between now and the end of the year. And that made me break a promise that I made to myself, which was I'm ever doing this again. And so that's when I realised that I needed to exit. It didn't matter how much I was making didn't matter how pretty my company truck was, I needed to go do things and kind of take the bull by the horns on my own. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 5:13

yeah, that's hard to do. That's something that, you know, in my job I've not had to do you know, so I can't imagine, especially in the holidays, I mean, Christmas Eve, yeah. Hey, Merry Christmas. Um, here's your big flip. You know, I mean, yeah,

Jerome Myers 5:30

it was painful for me. And people have, I've never really said it publicly. But for me, it was a traumatic experience. And we don't talk about trauma a lot. But I've been working with a buddy of mine. And trauma is coming up more and more. And I know your background with the military, you guys are first line defenders. And so that type of stuff happens. And so whoever's in your community, just be careful with the trauma that you go through, and make sure that you have the tools and techniques to process that so that you can contribute to the community when you move on from that space agenda.

Brian Briscoe 6:04

Yeah, you know, and in the military, in the last several years has actually started to just be more open about it. You know, it used to be that a lot of things were just kind of swept under the rug, because it was all part of this tough guy. You know, incidentally, I was I was reading something that somebody sent to me that his uncle wrote, and he was talking about, you know, shooting the big guns on the the old warships in the 30s and 40s. And, you know, they wanted to be iron sailors. And so they didn't wear earplugs, you know, stuff like that. And that's, for many years kind of been that the military's mantra is like, Hey, we're tough, we can handle it. You know, I don't need to put a GoreTex on when it's raining, you know, type stuff, you know, it's cold outside, but I don't know. I don't care. You know, and I think recently, we kind of walked back from that position and put a lot more time and money into the mental issues, because it really is a big deal. You it there's there's rooms that just don't show on the inside there.

Jerome Myers 7:02

Yeah, I appreciate you acknowledging that. It's super important. And I know you've got your background, and there's a lot of people listening to this, who can be helped by it. And you know, we're going to talk about real estate, we promise guys, but yeah, I think that message, especially at this time of year is a pretty important one. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 7:19

yeah. And I mean, everybody has a moment, you know, I was talking with somebody else earlier today on another podcast. And he said that there's usually two things that that will change somebody know, that they're really good events. And he said it much more eloquently than I'm going to, but he said, You know, they're really super positive events. And the really horrendous events, you know, one of those two things are really going to change your course, you know, so you hit one of those events where you're like, I don't ever, ever want to do this again, you know, that is going to have more of a profound effect on you, then a lifetime of mediocre bad stuff, if that makes sense. You know, and for me, I think the the traumatic event for me was just getting home from a deployment, you know, an 812 months later, getting pulled into a general's office and him telling me, hey, congratulations, you know, you're going to go to Iraq, it's going to be a great career move for you. Because just like that, that was one of those moments where in my mind, he was just like, I just love my family. You know, I don't want to believe them again. And it was that moment where I just that's actually when I started my countdown, to be honest with you. I think most of most people know that. I do have a countdown until the day I retire. Yeah, so So that said, let's let's talk. Let's talk a little bit more about your story. So corporate America, Thanksgiving, don't spend your paychecks. Where do you go from there? Yeah, so

Jerome Myers 8:44

I thought I was going to go walk into a bank and get a loan on a multifamily property. The problem was that I hadn't solved for the first two things, and maybe even three and four, knowledge, deal flow experience and capital. And so I was in the bank, I thought I had a deal. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't really have a deal. I didn't have the experience. And I didn't understand what they were saying when I knocked on the door those 10 banks and said, Hey, don't you want to lend to me? I got 100 credit score, and I got some cash in the bank. They're like, Yeah, but you, you don't have experience. I said, Of course I have experience. Yeah, I just ran a $20 million p&l. I have an MBA. I've got a professional engineering licence. I mean, I could keep giving you these credentials if you want. And they said, No, that's not what we're talking about. They say, Have you signed a loan on a deal of similar size and executed a business plan that is very similar to the one that you're getting ready to do? I said, No, how do I get experience if this is my first deal? He said, well go find somebody who has experience and thought. And so I took myself walk back out. I mean, like I said, 10 different places. And so I went and started fixing and flipping because that was all that I could think to do because I was going to do real estate. full time, we get through a few of those, and I get my knight in shining armour on the white horse pull up and it's a Dodge Ram instead of a horse. And he says, Hey, I want to check out the inside, I want to check out the finish is on your flip. And as we get to talk, and he says, Hey, I'm looking at this property, this apartment building, do you know anything about it? Like, yeah, I know something about that. I tried to buy that five or six months ago, and said, You're the guy I've been looking for, right? He's gonna save me. Yeah, you're the you got the experience? And he said, What are you going to bring to the deal? And because I couldn't accurately or eloquently articulate what my value I was going to be to the deal. He went and did that thing without me, or at least he tried to. So he wrote the offer, he got rejected, he went to talk to one of our common comrades, and he said, Hey, I want you to come in and be the GC on this deal. He said, Well, Jerome brought that to me at the beginning of the year. I'm only going to do it if he does. And that was when I learned and knew like, I've been doing the right thing. I've been investing in some of his projects for over three or four years. And so he brought me into the deal. And we went off and bought this 23 unit in Richmond, Virginia. And I was the asset manager we bought from a broker. So they did the press release. And my name was in the papers, asset manager, I still remember the head on. And I, for the life of me, couldn't believe it. When my phone started ringing. People wanted to know what I had in the pipeline, Brian? Yeah, I had no idea what I was doing. But they want to know what had a pipeline and they wanted to show me their products. So we that's when things changed for me. And so I started writing my own contracts. And for those of you listeners, you know, there's joint ventures and syndications because my first deal was a joint venture. I just kept beating that now. And I'm one of the few people who probably doesn't syndicate. And so we've done a number of different deals. We did that first one in Richmond, and we've done a few here in Greensboro, North Carolina. And now we're working on a 20 unit development that we call technology row. And we're looking to break ground in 2021 on that,

Brian Briscoe 12:11

right. So fitting I got you on the line, we're working on a joint venture ourselves right now. And when my partner called me up, so I'm not part of the acquisitions. Team. Eric surely is our acquisitions guy. And when something gets close to contract, you that's that's when you brings it to me and then starts telling me but it looks pretty good that we'll be doing a JV and I promise you as soon as we get that under contract, I'm going to call you up and say, Hey, Jerome, we're doing our first JV but I think there there's a lot of there's a lot of benefits to doing either one. there's pros and cons either way, you know, I don't think there's a right or a wrong but there's a right for you and a right for me, both of them. I think there's financially if you can get into a JV you know, if you've got the money, and the capital to be able to tackle something in the JV, your returns are going to be higher, you know, the syndication model allows you to go bigger sooner, you know, so it's really just a matter of what do you want to do?

Jerome Myers 13:06

Yeah, I think bigger sooner actually happens if and only if you can build a network of investors to bring the money to the deal. You got the folks have done a phenomenal job at that. But most people just don't have the network because they don't have the credibility. And I'll say it again, just for the listeners, because I know the majority of them are looking for their first deal, knowledge, deal, flow, experience and capital, you need to get educated. And Brian's an example of what happens when you get educated. After you have education, you can go find a deal, this is what gets you in, when you control the contract, then you can get some thing done because you can force your way in because you control the deal, the experience and capital you partner with those people in order to get your deal close. And that when we talk about capital, I put that at the top of the stack, because the banks only coming in after they have an experienced operator that they can bet on. And I know a lot of people and maybe even Brian shares it a different way where you're talking about raising money and building a network and that type of stuff. But even if they start doing that work, I really think they come back through that four step process. And it will save a tremendous amount of time. If you actually listen to me and solve in that way. If you've decided that you don't have capital and you can't do a deal, you're already sunk. You don't need to worry about capital if you don't have access to experience or a deal. Doesn't matter, because those things come first.

Brian Briscoe 14:33

Yeah, I agree I verbalise it a little differently. I say you should always be looking for three things, deal money in a team, you know, and inside that team comes with the experience that you're looking for, you know, so it ends up being the exact same thing and it's all based. It's all based around what it takes to get that loan. That's That's the longest pole in the tent is the lenders are going to dictate the terms because they're the ones that are putting 70 to 80% of the capital. They're so they're looking for experienced operators. And, you know, therefore, if you got the experience and you can bring money to the table, the world's your oyster. And then there's something else you said I'll double down on is once you get that first deal under your belt, Michael Blanc talks about the law the first deal, but it's absolutely true. You know, once we had our first deal under under our belt, I had brokers that I haven't even known and I still get brokers that I don't know that contact me, you know, once or twice a week, you know, Hey, are you looking for properties in Texas? Are you looking for properties in Oklahoma, you can properties in, you know, whereas, you know, while I was while I was trying to get that first deal, you know, I would call 15 brokers just to get one to talk to me. So, but yeah, that's that's a lot a lot of stuff there. You know, knowledge, deal, flow, capital and drill. What's your what's your fourth one? experience? experience? Yep. There you go. So, bring to table as me those things you can important for the rest? Absolutely. Good. Good. So let's, let's talk about your big burning. Why? You know,

Jerome Myers 16:05

yeah, short answer is freedom, right? I wear this shirt everywhere. And people ask me if I ever change my clothes sometimes, and I do is a different shirt just about every day, right? But it's I took the red pill. And I think there are a lot of people who are seeking an alternative experience. And they just don't have a conduit or a guide to help them get to that place. And so what I've really wanted to do is position myself as a person who can guide them from the place that they're in to that place of freedom. It's a little less comfortable, it's a little counter culture, or contrarian to use my man john Blanton's word. And if you're willing to do that, if you're willing to be uncomfortable, you can experience a great deal of freedom. And again, back to my traumatic experience, nobody was going to walk in again and tell me what I had to do with the people who were on my team. The buck I thought stopped with me until somebody had to make another decision and tell me what to do. And that didn't work anymore. And so I reclaimed what I consider to be my freedom.

Brian Briscoe 17:15

Yeah, you know, and something is something that parallels in my life. I mean, I've been active duty military for 19 years and change right now. And, you know, I used to think when I was lower in rank, I'm like, man, when I Lieutenant Colonel, be able to make all the decisions, you know, and I realised right now, how small of a box that commanding officers really have to operate it. I mean, it's not like, they have a lot of discretion. They've got a very narrow box, and it's like, stay in your box. But yeah, agree, agree wholeheartedly on that one. Incidentally, I was peddling red pills. Just last night, I ran into somebody, somebody that I deployed with. She's out of the Marine Corps right now. She went through grad school. And she just happens to live in the in the DC area. And we were talking, and she started asking questions about investing in real estate. She's like, Man, that just sounds really risky. And like, let's talk about risk that you have a job, right? So yeah, like, what would it take for you to lose your job? And she just looked at me, she paused and she was like, Oh, my gosh, you're right. You know, and it was just that quick. She was just like, like, what's what's more risky, you know, having a single income with no backup, or trying to create multiple income streams by investing in real estate. I mean, real estate doesn't have to be your vehicle. But you know, I think I think a lot of people just need to take that pill and realise that that that single income stream isn't gonna cut it.

Jerome Myers 18:42

I agree. 3,000%, you got to hedge the bets. And, you know, when I talk freedom is timing, location, freedom. But I think the other piece of this is knowing that you have revenue, and your revenue can't be outsourced. COVID It's been a fork in the will for a lot of people. But at the end of the day, when things get back to whatever the new normal is, people are going to pay their rent, they have to they need a place to stay and that can't be outsourced. And so knowing that you are supplying this foundational need is super important. Yeah.

Brian Briscoe 19:15

Yeah. Everybody needs shelter. Everybody needs shelter, you know, and that's, that's one of the one of the things that has attracted me to multifamily is just that fact, you know, when my wife and I were younger, with smaller kids, we lived in apartments quite frequently, actually, you know, so then when we weren't living in apartments, we were typically renting houses because you and you're only living in a place for one to two years. Sometimes just doesn't make sense to buy but we were habitual renters for a longest time and you know, you're always going to pay your rent. And that's the last thing you're going to skimp on. You know, I'd rather have somebody repossess my car then kicked me out of my home. Well, good enough. So let's talk a little bit about one of the projects one of the deals you guys have done recently, and give everybody an idea of what drone looks for.

Jerome Myers 19:59

Yes. So, I haven't talked about this because it just closed on Monday is not actually a deal that I signed. But we've walked every step of the way. And so we've got to get john Blanton on the show, I'm gonna blow him up right now. But he just bought, he bought 18 units in Greensboro, North Carolina, townhome style two bedroom, one and a half bath 100% occupied for $500,000.18 units, or $500,000. So when the bank went in and did the appraisal, they gave him a 10 cap on the property, it's a seven cap area. And it appraised at that 10 cap at like 700,000. And we won't do all the math on the podcast, but you can do the math, but what I will say is, he legitimately added 450 to $500,000, to his balance sheet in a single transaction. And I don't know where else you can do that legally. But I'm super stoked for him and going through our process. And considering doing JV realising that he didn't have to have partners, then just knocking down the deal. And because he was able to get educated, get the deal control that deal, he had the option of whether or not he brought partners in, and he didn't actually need it. Boom, he's he's put himself in a great position, whether he wants to harvest equity, or just continue to cash flow. And what I'm telling people right now when we're looking for deals is, Hey, I only want to buy something for the 2% rule. To make it super simple. I want 2% rule. And that's what he's getting on this deal. And so you know, that type of stuff is out there. And it's not deeply distressed. What part of our business model since you're asking what we're looking for, we want to help people retire, do you think there's a lot of landlords out there who have a tonne of equity trapped, and they're ready to retire. And so we want to give them an opportunity to harvest their equity. Yeah, they want to do it quietly. They don't want to deal with brokers, they don't want to do any of this stuff. And so we'll go pick that up and put it in the bag. And then we'll bring it back to the market when we've executed whatever our business plan is, he's got a great opportunity to come in and do some paint shutters, add some gutters, and then renovate units on the turns. And I know you guys are doing that I saw your recent posts on Facebook where you guys have freshly renovated units and you're proven $100 increase on a rants like, yeah, me using that methodology just makes a tonne of difference. It's like fixing and flipping, but somebody else is paying your mortgage. And I don't know how else, you can do real estate in a way where you're getting cash flow, or you're getting some income to service, the expenses and the debt, as well as take that money and improve the value of the asset. So yeah, yeah, it's super exciting. Again, I would love to hear him Come on and share this story with somebody trying to break through.

Brian Briscoe 22:54

Yep, done, you know, so I'll reach out to him. He just started a podcast of his own and we're we're working on date and time for us to record together, we'll just double up. So big jumble. I love what he's doing. Sounds like an awesome deal. I mean, 18 units for 500 grand, I'll be honest, my house cost more than that, you know, single unit, you know, in DC, but yeah, we're the JV unit we're looking at is we're not getting as good of a deal, you know, 28 units for just under a million, but it's a good number. It's a good number, you know, but it's it's about a mile away from an 82 unit that we just closed on. I don't think we'd normally go for a 28 unit. But just because the proximity we'll be able to manage it out of the, you know, 82 unit or onsite management, the 82 units going to manage the 2028 as well. And that'll be our first JV. So, yeah, and to your point, you know, we we've walked into similar amounts of equity on other deals, though, a little larger reposition, you know, we bought one of them just just about a year ago. By the time this airs, it'll be over a year ago, but 55% occupancy when we purchased it, and this was a 32 unit that we bought for 700. I think it was 768 is what we bought it at the the appraisal we we walked into a six figure equity position. When we purchased that property in the post. The post renovation appraisal put it I think a 1.41 point 5 million at the end of the day. Yeah, you can if you're if you're if you're doing the right things, finding your deals, you can walk into six figures of equity without a whole lot of effort. So do you need many of those to retire? No, no, no, when you got one deal, it's going to cash flow, you know, 100 grand a year. You know, when we all said and done. Yeah, you don't need many of those. So well cool, man. Hey, so what's next for you and what what's next for your team?

Jerome Myers 24:51

Yeah, I think the big thing that's next for us is building technology. Ro all of our attention is going into that 120 units and really targeting upper workforce housing. we've committed to serving the police officers, firefighters, service members, the folks who aren't making a tonne of money but deserve a great place to live. And so we've done that through repositions. And today, you know, we've been able to find a great piece of land, rezone it. And now we're going to work with HUD with their programme. And I think it's 221 D four. And in doing that, we're going to have the opportunity to get some 3% debt locked down for 40 years fully ammeter eyes and just enjoy the benefit of having a new property for a really long time in opportunity's own. Yeah, and we'll pick up some other stuff along the way. But the vast majority of the effort right now and resources is going to that Delve just because, for me is the largest deal I've ever done. I mean, the debt on the things over 15 million. And I kind of cringed when I saw the application, I was like, I don't even know I can count this high, right? You know, when when you start doing stuff like that, you can get and you know, I not just kind of can get like I'm excited, extremely excited about it. And to have a partner in that deal, who's done a few 1000 units, it's just a great testament of, it doesn't matter where you are in the spectrum, you're still always solving for those four things, knowledge, still flow experience and capital. As long as you're getting bigger, as long as you're growing, you're going to need to learn new stuff, you're going to need to find those deals, you're going to need somebody with experience so that you limit your mistakes, and you're going to want to have access to more and more capital. So

Brian Briscoe 26:41

yeah, you know, I haven't done a whole lot of research on HUD loans. But you know, my understanding is you get that low fixed rate for a whole long time, you know, that 40 years at 3%? I mean, you can't beat that it's really gonna be hard to beat that, you know, until, you know, I don't know, maybe maybe if the Fed take puts a negative interest rate out there, which, you know, I heard projected that yesterday. But, you know, it's really hard to beat that low interest rate for a long time. But, you know, once again, it takes more knowledge to go from, you know, what you were doing in the past to be able to tackle this $15 million, you know, debt position on a HUD loan. We're good, good. So, let's introduce our next guest right now. We got Andre Jernigan on the line. He's a former professional and collegiate baseball player played at the Xavier University. And he's got a degree in finance, after his athletic career came to an end to discovered real estate investing. And it's since been determined to catch his new dream of freedom to becoming a full time multifamily investor, while positively impacting communities and inspiring others to be the best version of themselves. And lead lead lives of true fulfilment. That said, excited to talk to you today. Andre, welcome to the show. Appreciate it, Brian, it's honour to be here. Yeah. So you know, a lot of good stuff there. You know, I like the the catch your new dream kind of illusion to you know, your your baseball time, so. So let's talk a little bit about your history. Tell us about your background, your history, and what got you to where you are today. Yep, so

Andre Jernigan 28:09

grew up in northeast Indiana, Fort Wayne, most of us don't know it. But I grew up in a huge education was huge. And our family, you know, Brad, that worked at GM. And they always have a moan that always stressed us education and get to school, get to college isn't that the end of the big thing was baseball. And it was one of those things growing up when you played because it was fun. And it was kind of one of those you just did that over the summer. But you know, once you get to a certain age, I got to about 1516, I realised I was pretty good. And that led to an opportunity to play to different scholarship opportunities. And so I ended up at Xavier University of Cincinnati. And it was one of those It was a very close line between student athlete that's what they always told us, your student athletes, a very close, you know, students athlete, but it was an interesting experience. I think, you know, you meet some people there, and especially at a private school like that you meet different people get exposed to different things, and it opened my mind up, but truth be told, in my mind was on baseball, and, you know, you go through a couple years there, I won a couple championships, got some accolades, conventionals another time if you want, but, you know, I guess my senior year and I had one of those, nothing to do around the same like and I ended up was fortunate enough to get drafted by the Minnesota Twins and so played a couple years of pro ball, you know, obviously, there's a bunch of experiences there. But one of the big things I was took away was I would talk so you know the guys from Venezuela from the Dominican Republic as I've spoken have a spare speaking of Spanish to where I can get by so just hearing their outlook on you know, lifelong baseball that that was the very first time I was introduced to you know, seeing the world differently. And they talked so much about enjoying life and you know, living in the present and different things like that. And you know, me growing up, you know, here and the way I did is like, Man, I'm playing baseball and I need to get off I had a bad day and you know It's better to fight the bad days got to be better tomorrow, study better. And you know, I'll just remember one story of specifically, there's a guy he told me he's like, you know, why are you so mad? I'm having a terrible day. I think I'm like, oh, four, five, you know? strikeouts, everything. And he's like, Why are you so mad? I was like, I'm having a bad day. He goes, I got a question for you. What do you want to do tomorrow? Well, we'll be at the field we're playing at home. All right, we're gonna do the next day, though. We go to West Virginia, we play he goes, alright, so I'm gonna tell you, you get to go, you did grow up, you're playing the game. And most people love You're doing it every single day, every day is a new day, don't dwell so much. And that struck me and he kind of stuck with me. But fast forwarding we're out in I think, just outside of Chicago, I want to say up in South Bend, actually, and play their bus ride backs. You know, we don't play, you don't fly in the minor leagues. So we're bus ride back couple hours. And I remember getting back, the coach has called me out in the office, and they're like, hey, and you talk to you. And it's 1231 o'clock in the morning or so. No problem. And I got released, like sitting there, my jaws dropped. So I'm just like, like, this is real, this is actually happening. And so go home pack up, I don't even think I slept a wink. And I'm out in Cedar Rapids, Iowa at the time. So I packed up the next morning, like nine o'clock, and so got a decent drive. And so many things are going to let him you know, I get home and try and decide whether or not to, you know, keep playing. And eventually I choose not to, for different personal reasons, but it's one of those I have an identity crisis as well. Right. And to go so long. The plan then went on. But anyway, fast forward, you know, I found a job here locally, but it was one of those, you know, I just needed to do something to get my mind off everything. And so I started working. And I was just, this can't be life can't be this can't be the next, you know, 40 years. And you know, my big wake up moment was one day, I remember, I woke up go through my morning routine. And it wasn't till I was about 15 minutes down the highway that I realised I had my first conscious thought. And at that point, at that point, I was it scared me because I'm one of those people, I'm always thinking about something that scared me like, this can't happen. And so I remember I had learned a little bit about passive income back in school, you know, upper level investment classes. And so I started looking into I start getting into stocks and different things like that. And I stumbled across, you know, the purple Bible, Chris, Dad, Poor Dad. And it was one of those things where I read it, and that was another I don't wanna say identity crisis by paradigm shift. You know, I grew up the way I did, I go to a good school, got a good degree, and it's like a, it's like everything. I'm like, Okay, this one didn't work out. Worst case scenario, I've got my finance degree. Then I read that book, and I'm just like, boom, wow. Really? Okay, so what's next? And so I, you know, I just dive into all this, I come across multifamily. introduced to a guy on bigger pockets, I went to a seminar down in Cincinnati. And that was the first time it was real, like, Okay, this isn't just a theoretical, you know, looks good on paper, things like that. And so at that point, you know, I just dove in mathematically, multifamily just always made sense to me. And so I was like, Okay, well, if I can figure this out, then I can open up so many different things for myself and be able to introduce others to this. And so that's led me to where I am today, you know, just kind of learning once the drones conference, I was back in May this year on say, July this year with it being pushed back enough as a COVID. And so it's been around you're filming here and all the speakers and meeting different people there. It's just one of those things that it reminds me of that feeling you have being part of a team. And you know, once you're done with sports, that kind of is gone. And but it's just a certain energy and is the first time you know, I felt like, wow, this is something that I want to pursue. It's like it's it's just a good thing. And inside, I don't know how to describe it, but that energy is there with multifamily investing was it was contagious. So yeah, we're here today,

Brian Briscoe 33:57

you know, and something you say, I mean, once again, y'all bring bring my military background, you know, a lot of a lot of members separating from the military, you kind of have that same thing that they go from a team, a place where they're always around people, they're always in a team, they're in a squad or a fire team or platoon or, you know, a unit of peers, and then you lose that, you know, and when you said identity crisis, yeah, I understand that completely. Because that's what I don't know most service members go through when they get out because it's just like, you know, you probably identified as a baseball player for your whole life. I went through a little bit of identity crisis because I I've identified as a marine for the last, you know, 19 years. It took me a while to kind of realise that okay, this is not who Brian brisco is, it's part of me, but it's not it's not all me But yeah, so I appreciate that and I mean, fortunately for you, you can comparing and trashing the two of us, I read the purple Bible in like 2005 and I didn't get into multifamily till you know, 15 almost 15 years later, so you got me beat on that one. Let's put it that way. Well, good, good. So what's what's what's your big burning Why I mean, you talked a little bit about reasoning, but if you can just distil it down, you know, what's that big burning why that drives you.

Andre Jernigan 35:08

And I'm Jerome Ferguson addressed earlier freedom, I was once told, you know, once you know too much about something, you can't go back. And you know, seeing the idea of decoupling your time, your money and time, it's just, it's hard for me to justify, you know, just living the way society wants you to. And so that's a big part. And then the other part is, you know, I don't have kids yet, we don't have kids. So I actually didn't hear that. But I know my parents were at every single day where my dad did his best to be out every single baseball game, every event that my brother and I ever had, and that's a big thing for me. And then, you know, go along further with that is to be able to pursue my dreams. And then for my future children pursue their dreams without that fear, or, you know, that thing in the back of your head that says, okay, is this realistic? Do? Can you really afford it, you know, because a big thing for me is, especially after, you know, I've reflected on the baseball thing a while, but the big thing was living with that regret. And, you know, I know I gave up on that dream strictly because it's a minor thing you don't get, you don't get paid much. And so it just wasn't feasible. And knowing that I gave up for that reason, a childhood dream that, you know, you can't just go chase baseball whenever you want to. And so living with that regret and that column, say guilt or anything, I really don't want my children to ever go through that. And so, when I stumbled across this, I was like, well, that that's, uh, it came about as a solution to that potential problem whenever it arises. Or if it in which, if I have anything to do with it, it won't arise, but just to freely chase those dreams allow them to do that. It's that would mean, you know, the world's I mean,

Brian Briscoe 36:47

yeah, you know, and that's absolutely key. I think with a lot of people, you know, my dad, my dad delivered mail. And I remember one day that I just looked at him and said, Dad, I want to be exactly like you, I want to be a mailman I want to, and my dad looked at me and said, Son, if you're a mailman, I have completely failed you, you know, and I was just like, you're almost hurt, you know, and it just kind of, I love my dad. a tonne. And he just explained to me, he's like, Look, Brian, I want you to have a better life than I have. And so if you end up being a mailman, like me, I have failed you. And so I look at the same thing with my kids. I want them to be better off than I was. And I think that's a common driver for a lot of people. So good. So wait, we have Jerome on the line here. Andre, what do you want to ask him?

Andre Jernigan 37:34

As your bro? I guess I guess the global with everything that's been going with the conversation so far. You know, I hear you mentioned knowledge is one of the first step, you know, to getting into this business. So with that in mind, how do you know when someone is ready to you know, go and take that step of either some sort of formal education or mentorship? Like do you have any criteria? Or like, Is it just a personal thing? Or like what do you say?

Jerome Myers 38:02

So I don't think you can start getting education too early. If you know that your Northstar or part of your path is multifamily. I think you start getting an education as soon as you can, financially, if you're worried about a bunch of other stuff. And back to this whole capital thing, if you think you need $100,000 in order to buy a building, and you don't have that, so you're not going to get educated. I think that you're selling yourself short. If you are able to get educated and you have the knowledge and you can differentiate between a lead and a deal, there is a high likelihood that you'll either be compensated for bringing that to somebody which will go into your savings in order to do your own deal. Or you can get a piece of the ownership and being in that deal. And so I think that is kind of the gateway drug to getting into multifamily. Get that education. The one thing that I will tell you this the biggest mistake I made and I try to leave it out of podcasts now. But I used to listen to 40 hours of content a week, I used to listen to everybody's podcast. And this would be for Brian came out with the something that was targeted to new people. But I remember just like Brian, I listened to every episode of Michael blanks podcast. Right? I went through and I wasn't just listening to Michael, I was listen to the guy from the northeast, Mid Atlantic, the South, the Midwest, and the far west. I was listening to everybody. And I was trying to put all of it together. And I didn't do it well, but I didn't have a cohesive system of going into em because I was taking bits and pieces from everybody because I was saving money by just taking taking the free content in Yeah. And what I will tell you is what every educator has to offer is available on the internet somewhere. What you have to do as a person who hasn't actually done a deal is figuring out how to assemble that into a framework that actually makes sense. And I think it's an impossible task where you make a tonne of mistakes or in a piece Your Progress because of the amount of time that you have to invest in it. So what I encourage people to do, instead of trying to figure it all out on their own and cheap, their way out is fine educators who you identify with from a values perspective, and then from there, dive super deep on their content, get an end to end system, from finding the deal, to flipping out of the deal, so that you can understand what this thing should look like. This is going to do a couple of things. One is going to give you the foundation that you need in order to evaluate deals. The second thing is going to do is give you credibility in the space when you're out talking to people who would be potential partners for you. And then I think the third thing is because you know what a deal actually looks like. You're educated when you go into the bank and ask for your biggest partner to put their money in the deal. And that is a totally different conversation. But what I see a lot of people doing, and what I like in that conversation, too, is something like this. Hey, Brian. I've been listening to podcasts and watching YouTube videos, I decided that I'm going to start my MMA career with my title fight is going to be with Conor McGregor. Yeah. All right, I need you and your friends to wire me $500,000 so that I can do all the stuff I need in order to get to that fight. If I lose, you don't get one red cent. But when I went, Brian, because I have listened to podcasts and YouTube, and I even read some books, you will get a 15% return on your money. Now I've got the wire instructions at the ready. I can send that to you via text or email. Which do you prefer?

Brian Briscoe 41:41

None of the above? Yeah, that's a that's a good example. I like it. I'll chime in a little bit on my experience. You know, I tried to podcast route. And I remember walking out of an eight unit apartment building that I had toured with a realtor. And the thought came across that, like, how do I even know this is a good deal. And what I had done is I was like indexing podcast episodes. No kidding. I kept a running log. Okay. Michael Blanc, Episode 122 talked about due diligence, you know, when I get to do deals is I'll go back and listen to that podcast, you know, but that that was that was it for me. But you know, I agree wholeheartedly, you know, the informations out there. Some people do well with mentorship coaching programme, some people don't, but you do definitely need to get educated. Find somebody that resonates with you, you know, find somebody that you likes, and, and stick with them. out of the four Oaks, two of us did formal coaching two of us did.

Andre Jernigan 42:39

Absolutely appreciate that. I appreciate that. Scott kind of spitballing off just a little bit, you know, you build that massive business back before you dropped out before you left the matrix. Looking at the skills that you built during that time, and you learned which ones I would say like two or three would you say have translated most into what you're where you're at now, as far as investing in running these, you know, separate businesses, as I like to see. Yeah, I

Jerome Myers 43:07

think the first thing is going to be my ability to model, right being able to model your deal, even though the one thing that I know about my model is this wrong, right, it's just a matter of whether I'm high or low on my projections. And what we shoot for is to be low on our expenses, or meet, we want to be high on our expenses and low on our revenue. That makes people really, really happy when we over perform on those two metrics. And so you know, I spent a lot of time modelling at one point, I was managing 400 concurrent projects, you can't really do that by yourself. But I was responsible for all of them. And so the second piece of it is people management. And so whether you have direct employees or you have contractors, you're going to need people to run these things if you want your time and location freedom. And I think that is the only reason to really be in this business is to have that option. If you're the person with the hammer, if you're the person fixing toilets, if you're the person worrying about picking up trash, then those things are going to prevent you from growing your actual real estate business. So between my ability to analyse, p&l and see what's wrong, and then model out what I think we can do on the front side, so that when we get into the deal, we can execute against that and work against our business plan. And then managing the people who are actually executing the business plan. I would not be where we are today. If I didn't have those skills prior.

Brian Briscoe 44:35

I'll add one thing and this came from Jerome story earlier. Remember when he talks about his first deal how the other contractor said, I'm not doing this? Unless Jerome's in on it. Yeah, all right. It's a relationship business. Alright, somehow Jerome had built a relationship with that other contractor that was strong enough that when this guy got something put in front of them on a silver platter, he's like, I want you room with me. You know, I'm not doing this Unless Jerome's doing, I'm not going to cut Jerome out, you know. So end of the day, that's that's something that I noticed when he was telling the story is, if he did not put time and effort into that relationship, he may be in a completely different spot right now.

Jerome Myers 45:15

No way I would be sitting on the sidelines. Yeah, absolutely. sitting on the sidelines, still trying to figure out how to get the deal done.

Brian Briscoe 45:24

So, relationships,

Andre Jernigan 45:25

it's there. There's what's you know, but there's all it's also a relationship can people managing relationships, guys seems to be the revolving thing around all this. As well, we'll know. Let's go to limiting beliefs. Gentlemen, I had a brief interaction was this last week? I believe it was a couple weeks ago about, you know, my own personal limiting beliefs. And so I guess, did you have any limiting fears or any kind of limiting beliefs as far as what you're going to do next? And even if you knew what you're gonna do next, which she did, but you didn't know exactly how, so? How did you overcome those? Was there anything that you did mindset wise, or, like, how did you overcome that?

Jerome Myers 46:08

Yeah, limiting beliefs are huge Andre, and I think we paint ourself in this box. And this goes back to this whole red pill thing and deciding that the rules aren't real, right, deciding that you can create your own future and your own destiny. And so what were my limiting beliefs? Well, after the bank told me no, I thought, well, I can't be a multifamily investor, because I don't know anybody who's done it. And I'll take this back. So I didn't just come up with this. Oh, I'm going to go buy an apartment. Between the time that I decided that I was going to leave. And the time when I realised I had to lay people off. My sophomore year in college. I wanted to be a multifamily investor. My buddy was living downstairs, he was paying 395 Yeah, two roommates doing the same thing. And I was upstairs, I had two roommates, and we were all paying 395. When we multiply that across a complex, like I was making 700 grand a year, we never saw, we'd never talked to him. I was like, This is it, this is what we're looking for. And because I grew up the son of a soldier and a stay at home mom, we didn't have people who own multi million dollar Real Estate Investments come over to our house for dinner. It just was one of the foreign things. My dad was an enlisted man, he joined the Marines when he was 16. And so I had that limiting belief. From the time I was a sophomore in college 20 until I actually got my first deal done. And it's just like, I don't know anybody who's doing this. And again, it hit me in the face, right? imagine putting that on the shelf going through all this time, I'm gonna make my money, I'm gonna get my credit score. And then I'm gonna go show people that I can buy this thing. And then the banks turn you away when you think, Okay, well, I've done enough stuff. And I've got enough credibility in order to get along. So that was deflating in every way, shape and form. But I just kept doing what I could do with what I had. And my mom taught me when I was a kid, she said, baby, if you want somebody to help you start pushing your own car, don't sit in the car with the flashers want to push your own car. And when you start pushing your own car, people will show up to help you. And that's what ended up happening for me. And so I didn't think that I could do a deal, especially after I got thrown away from the banks, because I didn't have the relationships, I didn't have the network, I wasn't smart enough to get in a community of people who were doing deals, I wasn't smart enough to go buy mentor ships so that I could get exposed to people. And I wasn't even smart enough to reach out to people who were on podcast that were guests to try to figure out how I could build a relationship with them. That is what I think you do when you don't have that network in order to get into a new space. And I think what Brian has done is set up a really great situation where you can meet somebody who you've never talked to before and have a conversation, I ask your questions. And I'm pretty sure those folks will be willing to take some more calls from you help you on your journey, as long as you're taking action on the advice they're giving you.

Brian Briscoe 49:10

I'll tell you, I told you a little bit about me reading the purple Bible as well. And Kiyosaki talks a lot about commercial real estate in there. I remember reading that book and thinking, I don't even know where to start on commercial real estate. You know, that was a huge limiting belief for me, you know, and that's what I decided to do single family homes. And it was it was literally in my mind and like, I can't even begin to think about this whole commercial real estate stuff. You know what, I could probably do a single family house that's not too complicated. But for me, I think the fortunate thing is I actually took action. And the further you push the envelope, the more you realise what's possible, and that's for me, it ended up being I started looking at Okay, you know, I have a handful of single family homes. I can do a duplex or I can Do a five unit, you know, I can do one of those. And it was just gradually started pushing the envelope and we get myself more comfortable with that. But I think the biggest thing for me was there were a couple of times where I really had to get out of my comfort zone. And those were the times that I grew the most. So Alright, that said we, you know, we've been talking for over an hour now. Yeah, I mean, we haven't the recording the whole time. But I just looked at the clock and you know, hour and 11 minutes since we started the call, so we probably should wrap it up. great conversation. You know, I love what you guys are doing my new favourite podcast episode right here. By the way. Don't tell Julie Holly that. But anyway, last question for both of you. how can listeners learn more about you, Jerome You go first.

Jerome Myers 50:46

Man, super grateful for this opportunity. I think the best way if people want to learn more about getting into multifamily in our four step process, we've just released a new guide of the five missteps that every multifamily investor should avoid. They shot over the Myers methods COMM And there they can get access to a free four step guide. We've got a community if they want to join that. And I'd love to come back after Andre does is because I've got something super special for the listeners if you'd be welcome for that.

Brian Briscoe 51:16

Yep. Well, I'm open for it. So Andre, you're next. how can listeners learn more about you?

Andre Jernigan 51:21

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, huge, Andre Jernigan. And sure I'm not the only one out there but from Fort Wayne, Indiana. That is probably the best way to get ahold of him pretty.

Brian Briscoe 51:31

Alright, well, we'll put links to your profile and drone back to you.

Jerome Myers 51:35

So we've talked about the mid Atlanta multifamily investing conference is coming up March 19 through the 21st. And I'm excited to announce that Brian brisco is going to be a speaker at the conference.

Brian Briscoe 51:51

All in but all in 100%

Jerome Myers 51:54

so with nominal you heard it here first, guys, this is just coming out. It's a great way to start the new year. I didn't see it come in. I thought about warning them but I thought it would be better just to catch them off. Surprise

Brian Briscoe 52:07

and 100%. So yeah, all in and Jerome, I you know from the bottom my heart. Thanks. That is It's an honour to do it. Yeah, absolutely. Love to. Anyway, we're gonna put links to that. Do you have a website up for it yet? Or anything yet?

Jerome Myers 52:22

Yes. It's Myers for slash con 2021 con 2021. All

Brian Briscoe 52:29

right, we'll put a link to that in the in the show notes as well. And you know, everybody get your tickets. So it's gonna be big. All right. And once again, thank you to both of you for coming on the show. I really enjoyed talking with you guys today. And you know, hope we can all talk again sometime. Not hope we will, but absolutely. All right. Thanks. I really appreciate you guys. Thank you. All right, that's a wrap.

Thank you for listening to the divergent apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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