Updated: Oct 8
Episode 192 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Yusef Alexander, Denise Piazza, and Danielle Pachioli. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.
Danielle Pachioli 0:00
What do you think was the most effective way to build relationships with brokers when you started out doing larger multifamily deals
Yusef Alexander 0:08
a lot of investors entrepreneurs in the beginning part of their career they want to know how to get the momentum how to get the deal flow. And so what I did was I created the deal flow from a blended approach I mean every way I could possibly do it I mean, of course you you know you want to meet people of course you also want to know you want you want them to know your track record and know how, how much of a candidate you are to buy this asset. So acquisitions and brokers, I'm looking to create a some type of attitude or protocol or system to just get in front of as many as possible. Off market deals. I'm all over the place.
Brian Briscoe 0:52
Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe. Woo folks capital. Super excited for today's show. We've got a couple of great people on the line with us. We got Youssef Alexander, Denise piata, and Danielle poggioli. So first of all, we're going to bring on our experience guests. You said Welcome to the show.
Yusef Alexander 1:36
Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Brian Briscoe 1:38
Yeah, this is this is fun. It's one of the highlights of my my weeks is the podcast hours. So that said, Why don't you get us started and tell us a little bit about yourself?
Yusef Alexander 1:50
Well, I like to, I like to do the short version, especially since we're going to have a long discussion and then we can kind of dive into whatever we need to dive into but born and raised in Los Angeles, UCLA economics grad, you know, done some smaller deals throughout my career in the mid to late 90s. And then 20 some odd years later scaled to multifamily went from Southern California to Arizona to the Midwest. And then most of my activity in the multifamily market was in the southeast Carolinas
Brian Briscoe 2:24
yeah nice nice well what are your favorite markets in that area?
Yusef Alexander 2:29
in the Southeast Georgia Atlanta is a phenomenal market but you know it's grown so much over the last past decade we're you know, we've created a footprint that the the other markets are what the surrounding markets are emerging as well.
Brian Briscoe 2:44
Yeah, yeah. And I specifically go ahead sorry about that
Yusef Alexander 2:48
right in the north as well the north and North Atlanta corridor so to speak is a very very hot area.
Brian Briscoe 2:54
Yeah one area we're high on is I live corridor especially for South Carolina like the the Upstate South Carolina area we've got six properties you know within a stone's throw of that 85 you know, through South Carolina but we like those areas as well for for many reasons but so so grew up grew up in Los Angeles area you said are you still in that area?
Yusef Alexander 3:17
Well yes I am. I had a home actually in in Georgia. I recently sold it but I have a home here in Los Angeles as well. This is where my kids go to school.
Brian Briscoe 3:27
Yeah yeah nice nice to be close to the kids. So what got you into multifamily?
Yusef Alexander 3:33
Well I mean early in my career I you know started like I said in the one to four unit repositioning and I decided that you know, the better way for me to scale the operation and also scale the investor syndication would be a multifamily project and from then I you know, kind of had to make the pivot from the smaller to the multifamily and no, just the career started from there and kept going. Yeah,
Brian Briscoe 4:01
I think a lot of people who listened to the podcast are right in that pivot and I think a lot of people have done exactly what you said you're doing where you're doing the one to four you're doing the smaller stuff you know light bulb goes on you know, I'll take a UCLA economics degree to realize that scaling is what you need to do but with a lot of people light bulb goes on and they try to transition to multifamily what was the what were the big challenges you have in that transition from the smaller stuff to the bigger stuff?
Yusef Alexander 4:30
Well, I mean, you just got to learn a different skill set some of the skill sets are you know transferable and add value and you know, I have some intentional things that I like to put in play when I when I take on a project but the since you have a scaled site, you have to execute a business plan on you know, with that in mind. So you have scaled marketing, leasing, you have a customer base that needs to be accommodated as well. The customer base, of course, Is the property sometimes there's a you know there's a personality with the campus which is the property and the community it's a type of property where there's mostly families are mostly you know, you know young adults or whatever so those are the things that need to be taken into consideration more so than if you have a single family dwelling in this just that kind of standalone issue
Brian Briscoe 5:21
yeah yeah you know we've kind of the same thing I mean there are some things some things translate directly over some things are brand new when you're when you're jumping into multifamily space do us a favor and talk talk to us about you know, one of the projects you've done you know, pick a recent one pick your favorite one and give us an idea of the type of stuff that we do
Yusef Alexander 5:40
let's see. Okay well there's 104 unit building we did in the Atlanta area and you know got in at a pretty good per door price but didn't know if if we wanted to just spend a lot of the resource of the business plan in the amenities or we wanted to go in you know interior you know, do a really kind of heavy turn on the on the on the vacant units but what we found was again, like we just spoke about the personality of the asset was families you know, mostly families and our some older families and sometimes you never know until you get into a deal really get into a deal which is purchasing it and we found that amenities the families the population, they wanted amenity so what we did was we put a kind of a business center there and upgraded all of the, you know, the, the layouts, and we made sure the Wi Fi, we brought another Wi Fi line from the utility company in there and just kind of had an updated family. Oh, we did a pedestrian kind of a Parkway. There we did. We, we brought back to life. The it wasn't like not a play area, but it was kind of a little, you know, little park path. We brought that back. So it was just more families versus when we first came came into the, the property we were thinking young adults, you know, they just hipsters you know, I mean, you do everything inside the house, you know, the bike racks to Amazon drop space to all the new new stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So got in there did 10 of the unit, maybe five units the way we thought, and then we end up doing 30 of the units, you know, the way they should be done? and, consequently, turn that property in about a year. And yeah, and got out of it and sold it for for profit.
Brian Briscoe 7:34
Nice. Nice and what what, what caught your guys's attention? I mean, you said you you started out with your business plan got into five and realize you'd make a pivot? What was what was the thing that caught your attention that made you realize you needed to pivot slightly?
Yusef Alexander 7:48
Well, you look at the rent roll, and you try to do a row audit to see where are the enhancements coming from? Alright, is it coming from renewed leases? Is it coming from New leases? And are those new leases, you know, what are the demographics say? Yeah, do they say new families, young adults, singles, transitional, you know, a population? What do they say? So when you start kind of diving into those numbers of the marketing, then you say, Okay, well, here's where, you know, that $50 turns into $150 increase? Because this is what the demand is, and the customer base is, yeah.
Brian Briscoe 8:25
Yeah, absolutely. We did a couple of tenant surveys when we purchased properties, you know, we've come in with a certain budget for renovations and a couple of open ended surveys, you know, for the most part, they're giving us the answers that we expected. But every once in a while, you get something on there that you know, five or six or eight people respond to and you're like, Oh, you know what, we can still do that. So I think a lot of times you know, paying attention to that really, really helps helps create community and helps, you know, translate to your bottom line as well. So yeah, so shifting gears a little bit something I'd like to ask everybody you know, what is your big burning? Why?
Yusef Alexander 9:07
Well, if I'm kind of going to continue on the the what you just said as far as the community there, you know, you you go into a place and for me, this is not a you know, a turn and burn situation or, or or fix and flip situation. These are our, our communities and my intentional attitude is abundant exchange. So how can I create abundant exchange with a community and that community needs to be served where the added value is in is in alignment with what what's needed, like, you know, after school programs and places and business centers, like we just spoke about and pedestrian parks and just kind of brought up an intentional community benefit to a place and then in exchange, you know, like you were saying, you know what some data collection and some surveys the exchange Is the demand the demand goes up? And which is the rental rates go up? And then, you know, the investment, you know, after the business plan is executed the investment, you know, shows Yeah,
Brian Briscoe 10:11
yeah, absolutely. I think I think a lot of people, you know, once they start realizing that you get a lot of traction, you know, it's it's creating the win win scenarios between the ownership and the residents, that really, really impacts the bottom line. I mean, I think he said that you hinted at this earlier, you know, you're looking at you know, are we getting big button renewals are from new tenants. But, you know, if you can, if you can show the tenants that you're, you know, building a community, a lot of them will renew at much higher rates, because they can see what's going on, they can see that the property is getting better, and there's more amenities there. And you know, what, one question I've always had from from a lot of people is, so you raise rents, what happens to the tenants there? You know, well, if you raise rents, right, and you're adding amenities, most of them stay in there there happened to so I like, how you how you put that, you know, that Win Win scenario there. That said, What's, what's next for you in your trajectory?
Yusef Alexander 11:09
Well, I'm here on on Southern California post pandemic now, so I haven't been doing a lot of traveling, but I'm looking to, and I have some deals here and in Southern California area, but also, I'm looking for fit Brian, and the fit has to be a capital partner fit possibly, or the asset, the location has to be a fit, where I enjoy, you know, going, and I don't necessarily, it's not a vacation site, but it's a place where, you know, I can kind of have a sort of a lifestyle. And then, and just, you know, from, from what I've done into, you know, what I would like to do, which is continue to create abundant exchange in communities and also bring profit to the investor space. You know, if those things fit, then I'm all over it. I'm all over it. So that's, that's what's next for me.
Brian Briscoe 11:54
Nice. Nice. Are we're going to shift gears one more time here. And we're going to bring Denise on first. So Denise, welcome.
Denise Piazza 12:02
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Brian Briscoe 12:04
Yeah, no problem. Absolute pleasure. So please do me a favor and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Denise Piazza 12:11
Sure. My background is I started my career in working with real estate about 20 years ago, I was at a CPA firm. And I had a lot of exposure to accounting and tax work for real estate businesses and clients who owned a substantial amount of real estate. At the time, it certainly intrigued me. But truthfully, I didn't have the capital to start investing. So after a few years there, I went to work for a few large fortune 100 companies doing some accounting and finance work. Over the years, I made my way up those organizations and eventually landed in a senior management role in accounting and finance. But luckily for me, those those companies that I worked for, they were growing very quickly. So over that time, I had the opportunity to work on several large acquisitions, internal projects, you know, system implementations, joint ventures, other large transactions. So and then about 10 years ago, my husband and I started investing in real estate. We've invested across multiple asset classes now, in both active and passive roles and single family, multifamily. We've done, you know, commercial retail space, triple net leases. So, through those experience, we really just developed our passion for multifamily investing. We're both CPAs. And so we are big fans of the tax benefits associated with with our, with our investments. And a short time ago, I'd say that I decided to be more active in the multifamily space and happy to report that Danielle and I are now have a deal under contract as co GP on our first 408 unit Class B property. So just been jumping right in.
Brian Briscoe 14:08
Yeah, yeah, I remember talking to him about that earlier with you guys. And it sounds like a fantastic opportunity. So congratulations on that. So So Denise, same question that I asked everybody on the show what's your big burning Why?
Denise Piazza 14:23
So my my husband and I like to think that we've been fortunate in in our hard work and the success of our careers. It allowed us to combine our passion for real estate investing, with my goal of giving back to organizations I'd like to support. I love everything about real estate and always knew I wanted to create a business around it. But I wanted to do it in a way that I could be incredibly proud of what I accomplished and not just financial success, but in supporting organizations with missions that I'm committed to their missions. Most importantly, remind me And those around me to stay humble, motivated and focused. And we're currently working with some organizations to donate a portion of our returns. And to help promote awareness for these organizations on our website, draw attention to some of the, you know, charitable organizations that we work with, and encourage others to, to become aware of, of these of their missions and to support the organizations and, you know, ultimately, I'd love to be in a position once I have a little bit more time to, you know, give back some of my time to them to supporting them. And that's some things that I know a lot of us talk about with more time freedom. But until I'm there, I like to support them through financial commitment until we get to the point where we'd have more time to volunteer.
Brian Briscoe 15:49
I love it. I love it. Definitely. anytime anybody talks about, you know, good causes, and giving back it brings brings a tear to my eye. No, not really. But you know, I'm saying a little warm, fuzzy feelings in your heart type stuff. But, you know, good, good for you for doing that and keeping those good causes in mind. Shifting gears, and we're going to talk to Danielle now so Danielle, welcome.
Danielle Pachioli 16:13
Hi, thank you for having us, we appreciate it.
Brian Briscoe 16:16
Not a problem, not a problem. So same questions for you, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself first, and then we'll also talk about your big green wine.
Danielle Pachioli 16:24
Okay, so I Denise's the hard act to follow. But I'll give it best try. So I grew up in a very small town in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania. And I went to Bloomsburg. University, I originally thought I was going to be a teacher and then shifted gears and thought I would do public relations, and got a taste of public public relations wasn't quite thrilled with it and had been recruited into a sales role. And so by day, I am juggling a medical sales position. I love it, I absolutely love what I do. And I have no plans of walking away. It is one of those positions where, you know, I feel proud to carry the products that I'm carrying, and they truly do benefit patients. And of course, that is hard to walk away. So but during COVID, I think most of us right had time to reflect. And I started to think about different sources of income. And several years prior I was approached in regards to multifamily. A friend had reached out to me and it just timing wasn't right at the moment. And so I had passed on it. Fast forward to the middle of the pandemic. And Denise who is one of the most driven individuals, females that I know. And so I always like to say she's going 200 miles an hour, and I'm tailing her behind her trying to keep up at 100 miles an hour. But she had reached out to me and as I had mentioned, I was already familiar with multifamily investing, a friend had reached out previously and I had passed on the opportunity, just timing wasn't right. And so when she had, we started talking about it, it was almost like the stars were aligning, and I, you know, unfortunately in a place where I I have some additional time to be able to do this. And so the ball started rolling very, very quickly. And I mean, as she mentioned, we just, you know, got our first deal under contract. So it's extremely exciting. I've been in sales for the last 20 years and you know, the last 12 specifically in medical and it's you know, it's a I think that there's some skill sets that can parlay obviously into this role. So
Brian Briscoe 18:52
I think you both have really good skill sets that translate you know CPA good with numbers finances and understand that side of the house in sales. I think everybody I never did a sales thing. But looking back in my life, I wish I would have been in sales for a while. You're you're selling yourself every time you talk to somebody.
Danielle Pachioli 19:09
Yeah, absolutely. And so no, I'm excited. We're really excited to see what the future holds.
Brian Briscoe 19:17
All right, sounds good. Well, Danielle, what is your big burning Why?
Danielle Pachioli 19:21
So it's funny, you know, you and I have obviously spoken before and I think I may have shared this with you. Being from a very small town in the middle of nowhere, blue collar family. I didn't really have much guidance as far as you know, just understanding investing and you know, those basic skill sets and not that I ever want my children to be spoiled, but I had always had the hope of having my own business and teaching them that you you can you can work for a huge global company and you can also invest And not just invest, but you know, diversify your investments through real estate. And so my burning Why is to show my children what just, you know, just because of circumstances, I wasn't, I wasn't shown at a younger age. And the other piece and Denise mentioned this, and I think this is where she and I truly align on our goals is be giving back. And there are several organizations and topics that are near and dear to our hearts. And so if we can, we can make, you know, good living and give back. I think, you know, as she mentioned, that's really important to both of us.
Brian Briscoe 20:43
Yeah, so absolutely, absolutely. Awesome. Great. So here's my favorite part of each episode where I say, you know, Denise, Danielle, we got Youssef on the line, what do you want to ask him?
Denise Piazza 20:55
How long I'll go first. So thank you so much for sharing your background with us. We definitely appreciate it. I it's no secret that the market is so hot right now, you mentioned Atlanta. And it sounds like you know, well, I want your opinion on secondary and tertiary markets. I think you started to get into it a little bit in regards to Atlanta. But I'm just I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what your thoughts are?
Yusef Alexander 21:22
Well, it's in the multifamily space and different areas. And I'm speaking of the south east, because, you know, I don't have any experience in the northwest or the Northeast, I just haven't experienced in West Coast and the South, southeast. So the tertiary, the tertiary markets, I don't, I don't really touch and STP just because I don't it can be done. But it's just something that my team in my appetite for my investment crew is just there. We don't have the appetite for that. But the primary markets in the secondary markets fine. You know, the pandemic has shown us people and one of one of my intentional ways to invest as people have give people dignified living, give people people a place to live, that they have, they take pride in. And that goes across. I mean, I've done projects and you talk about tertiary care, I've done projects in blighted areas, and around the United States. And that same intentional, prideful living attitude bodes well there. And I've done luxury living, which I'm not a fan of, and let's I don't want to get into that. But the prideful part of it the taking pride in a living space, is post pandemic is the market has shown that that's the returns on that are an intentional part of that is is just a big, big part of it. I hope that answers your question.
Denise Piazza 22:47
Yeah, it certainly does. Thank you, if you could, it sounds obviously like you, you're very focused, and that southeastern portion of the United States outside of Atlanta, what's your next favorite market?
Yusef Alexander 22:58
Well, um, you know, we talked earlier, and you know, what, what am I going to do next? I'm looking in Texas, and I have some stuff in Southern California that I'm looking at. As a matter of fact, a deal came across my desk in Northern California. I met you know, Napa, near Napa. So, you know, the West Coast and the Southwest are on my radar. And yeah, I wanted to comment on something because you struck a chord with me, Danielle, regarding teaching your kids financial literacy. And that's one of the things that I strongly strongly champion, childhood literacy, including financial literacy. No financial literacy can be taught to adults in any any population that wants to learn. But childhood literacy is a huge part of my public calls. And I'm on the board of a school, a charter school here in Southern Southern South Los Angeles and childhood literacy, coupled with financial literacy is something that is just so important. And thank God for moms and entrepreneurs like yourself that starting at home, you know, and then it branches out from there. Thank you.
Brian Briscoe 24:04
Yeah, some something about the financial literacy. I mean, like a lot of people I read the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and, you know, nothing, nothing, nothing district, about my father, but he, he's more of a poor dad mindset. You know, and I always wanted to have, you know, try to be the rich dad to my kids and teach him finances. Don't know how well I've done, you know, but, you know, I tried to at least be better at teaching finances to kids then than my dad was too mean. But, you know, I think that that'll put them on a road that I didn't have myself, so I couldn't
Danielle Pachioli 24:37
agree more. Okay, so if I have a question, I believe you mentioned acquisitions, just as part of the role you play in your partnership. What do you think was the most effective way to build relationships with brokers, when you started out doing larger multifamily deals?
Yusef Alexander 24:56
Well, that's one of the that's a good question. By the way, because a lot of Investors entrepreneurs in the beginning part of their career they want to know how to get the momentum how to get the deal flow and what happened to me is I was in sales and I also took the wholesale properties for the first two three years of my career I mean just as a broke 22 year old math teacher ex math teacher I should say you know I'm just I'm out there hustling and selling myself on borrowing money selling myself on buying deals and selling deals and selling deals to other investors as well so what I did was I created the deal flow from you know just a blended approach I mean every way I could possibly do it i mean you know of course you now in a more sophisticated you know role it's a you know you want to meet people of course you also want to know you want you want them to know your track record and know how how much of a you know legitimate candidate you are to buy this asset but again I'm I'm more of a you know, I come kind of from the old school is just I'm out there I'm out there talking I'm making phone calls I'm meeting people I'm you know very very very Matter of fact about who I am and what I want to do and that creates some you know, an attractive kind of energy to the calls that start to come in to me versus the calls that that you know, I make in the in the prospects that I make so I don't really have a formula I was just I was on a podcast earlier today and in the gentleman knew of some of the deals and he was like, why did you do this? And I said, Well, I you know, my attitude is I understand there's a problem but it's more it's more of an opportunity and if I can create a system or a protocol for that that work in my business in my company, then that becomes an opportunity to for me to have a better approach at this from my competitors and for myself so acquisitions and brokers I'm looking to create a some type of attitude or protocol or system to just get in front of as many as possible off market deals I'm all over the place I mean, I'm as you can see, right now I'm a little bit you just I just this is what I love to do. And I'm always doing it
Danielle Pachioli 27:09
yep. You're very transparent with your approach and I'm sure there's I'm sure there's a level of appreciation there so thank you yeah, a
Brian Briscoe 27:17
lot of what we said you know, you know him with me I mean, getting out there you know, what got me initial traction with the brokers that brought us our first deal was I was in DC at the time getting in my car driving eight hours to the south and trying to meet with as many brokers as possible and it was those face to face relationships that ended up getting us our first couple of deals you know, so get out there get to the markets where you're doing things and and the thing that all add and I mean, Youssef comment on where he is now with experience it's different but if you don't have experience of align yourself with somebody who does have experience and i think i think that's that's a pretty good recipe right there. You know, so just just basically keying in on a couple things you should have said there I think. Great, great answer.
Danielle Pachioli 28:03
All right. I have one more question. That's okay. Yeah, so I'm wondering if you could nail it down to just one piece of advice to give Denise and I what has made you are so successful?
Yusef Alexander 28:19
I'm going to apologize in the beginning of this answer because I'm going to flip it back to you guys you guys are very talented crew and you you have some endowed gifts of course but you also have some gifts you've collected over your your career, whether being the CEO of your homes, or this you know, you know partnering in a CPA firm and those skills can translate to what you're doing now which is buying multifamily assets it's been many times where I've I've been in meetings I've turned to her whether it be a male or female or a young millennial or and said hey, how do I do this? What What up because I don't have the skill set to figure out what the business owner should need or I don't have the skill set to figure out what the after school program a little aspect of our leasing office the back part of it we're going to use and I'm asking the person that had kids before I had kids and those skills translated into returns on my investment. So I apologize again, but the answer goes to the gifts and skills and experience that you guys have already gained those gains over the years. It will translate into your investment career I mean my mind and you know encouragement is to keep going
Brian Briscoe 29:33
yeah, absolutely agree agree agree. Hard work you know I'll answer the same question you know for me it was in the reason I asked the about the big burning why on every episode is because that's what drove me you know, it's not easy, you know, getting into this business. There is a substantial barrier to entry getting in. And you know what, like, Yousef said, I had a lot of skills that I had developed, and I I was just leveraging my own skills. But I think the biggest thing that kept me trudging forward, when when the going got tough was that big burning, why? You know, and like I said, that's, that's why I put it on every podcast episode, because, you know, I reviewed it every morning, every single morning, I reviewed, this is why I'm doing it, this is this is what I want, this is the results I want to achieve. And that's what that's really what got me going forward. And, you know, being able to use the skills that I had at the time and the skills that I've developed since so, for me, it was keeping my eye on on the prize, you know, here's my why, here's why I'm doing it.
Yusef Alexander 30:37
Right, one foot in front of the other, right? Yeah, as you just like Brian said, and then I was encouraged you to keep going, you're going to learn and develop. And you know, and, and more things are going to come, you know, to add to your your investor experience. But moving forward, as you continue to move forward. Like you say you got somebody going 200 miles an hour, and other than going 100 miles an hour, you'll get there.
Brian Briscoe 30:59
Awesome. But any Any other questions? Ladies?
Denise Piazza 31:03
No, thank you so much.
Brian Briscoe 31:04
So one final question for each of you as we wrap up the show, and you said you get to go first? how can listeners learn more about you?
Yusef Alexander 31:12
Well, I'm on, you know, the social media platforms, which I'm not that active. I'm learning LinkedIn and the professional ones. My website is, of course, but I take personal emails, and you can link that email in the show notes, but it's just my name at report EAP capital.
Brian Briscoe 31:29
Okay. And we'll have that information in the show notes. So if anybody's interested in reaching out to him, you know, hit him up. Danielle, you're next, how can people learn more about you?
Danielle Pachioli 31:38
Well, you guys can visit our website mainline Capital Advisors. And there's also there's the link to the investor portal is there as well.
Brian Briscoe 31:47
Okay, and we'll have a link to that in the in the show notes as well. And Denise, anything additional from you, same website for you to write?
Denise Piazza 31:55
Yes, it's a www dot m l capital advisors.com. You can also shoot me an email at DPO data pa CCA at Main Line cap, advisors calm. And thank you again.
Brian Briscoe 32:12
Alright, sounds good. And we'll have that information in the show notes. So thank you so much to the three of you for being on the show. I think I think it's a great time.
Denise Piazza 32:20
Thanks so much.
Danielle Pachioli 32:21
Yusef Alexander 32:22
Take care. Take care, guys.
Danielle Pachioli 32:23
Take care. Thank you. Nice to meet you as well.
Brian Briscoe 32:32
Thank you for listening to the diary of an apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, tap subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favorite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai