Researching Properties Without Overthinking with Hemal Badiani and Ramil Torres

Episode 78 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Hemal Badiani and Ramil Torres, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

That's it. Ramil, we got Hemal on the line here? What do you want to ask him?

Ramil Torres 0:03

I have this tendency to overthink. Can you tell me a little bit about how you guys research for these properties?

Hemal Badiani 0:10

I mean, if you look in multiple asset classes, it's easy to get distracted. What we did was we got data points on literally every town in the United States that has more than 50,000 in population, and we honed in on a subset of markets and said, these are the 20 or 15 that we would love to focus on. Then we created a team of acquisitions, folks who have basic criteria, so we have a multi step diligence process on each asset class.

Brian Briscoe 0:49

Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing.

This is journal entry number 78 and part of our Ask the Expert series. Today we have experienced investor Hemal Badiani and aspiring investor Ramil Torres keep listening for advice on how to rapidly check to see if a deal meets your criteria and how to build a team. And now the show Welcome to the diode apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe with four oaks capital today is one of our Ask the Expert episodes and I'm super excited for it. We got two great people on the line with us we got a guy with a tonne of experience in this and other businesses Hamel Badiani and a very motivated aspiring investor Ramil Torres so Hemal is the Founder and Managing Partner of exponential equity. He started his real estate investing career in 2012 and founded exponential equity to focus on his passion of helping busy families achieve financial freedom through commercial real estate prior to establishing exponential equity. Hemal provided management consulting services to several fortune 100 companies across three continents while creating a portfolio of businesses that he scaled and exited, including an outsourcing company and a private lending firm. Hemal lives with his wife and twin children in Charlotte, North Carolina loves golfing, music and reading. Well, hemal, that's impressive. So that said, welcome to the show.

Hemal Badiani 2:18

Glad to be here. And thank you for inviting me.

Brian Briscoe 2:21

Thanks for being on. I'm so glad that we met. So let's talk about you for a second you give us an idea of who Hemal is you give us a little bit of your background and your history and you take us up to when you decided to get into multifamily?

Hemal Badiani 2:33

Yeah, absolutely. I grew up as a family of business owners back in India came here to study to come to the land of opportunities and make a mark here. Shortly after I went to college here in Charlotte joined a consulting firm that took me around the globe and was really great in terms of experience, because I sat down with more than about 20 companies, C suite and help them build their competencies and processes and systems and strategies on how to merge how to scale how to be efficient. So a great, great experience to learn from the best of the best in terms of the largest companies in the world. And I think about 15 years into that had twin kids and really wanted to hang up my travelling boots. And at that point, really wanted to go back and internalise all the skills and competencies that I'd built along with my business background and my family business background, bring them all to the to the fore and build a company with a great vision culture and employees that are really looking towards that leadership. And so that's how exponential equity got formed.

Brian Briscoe 3:49

Nice so so twin kids boy, girl, girl, two girls, two boys, what

Hemal Badiani 3:53

do you got? Boy and girl just turned five nice, super exciting time of life. And every day I get about 25,000 questions from each of them. So really hones in my patience and focus. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 4:09

yeah, we got a five year old of our own. And if you're your five year olds or anything like mine, I mean, you got your hands full.

Hemal Badiani 4:15

Now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. One plus one is three. And this

Brian Briscoe 4:18

one, you know, my next door neighbour has twin five year old boys. And now seems like she has more kids than we do. We got five kids, but I mean, it almost seems like just with with two five year olds with that amount of energy. Yes. She's just got twice as what's on her hand as we do. So. Yeah. In that case, twins. One plus one is five. I yeah. I'm good enough. Good enough. So immigrated from India. How old were you when you came came over?

Hemal Badiani 4:44

I was naive 19 When I came here, I didn't know anyone came to Charlotte. And really even that's fantastic journey since then.

Brian Briscoe 4:55

Now have you lived here in the US or in Charlotte ever since

Hemal Badiani 4:59

I actually Had a great stint in London for about five years chase my then girlfriend now my wife to the UK and she lived there and really convinced her that Charlotte's the best place in the world to live. So we've been back since about 12 years now. Okay,

Brian Briscoe 5:15

nice. Nice. Yeah, I do like the Charlotte area. My wife grew up just outside of Columbia. And, you know, just just because the Columbia airports is a small airport, it would either fly in through Charlotte or through Atlanta. Yeah, but Charlotte's a beautiful area. You know, I love the Carolinas for lots of reasons. So when you decided to build your, your company, what brought you to real estate?

Hemal Badiani 5:39

Yeah, I grew up with one of my uncle's he was a big real estate investor back in India. So actively, while passively we've been investing since 2012. And even when I was working in the consulting business, both in Charlotte, you know, building a portfolio of townhomes and new construction, and also back in India buying a lot of land and apartments there. So it was just natural inclination, knowing I knew the math, right, as simple enough, you put in put in your money, somebody else lives there, pay the mortgage to beautiful over a period of time you build equity. So just a very predictable, hard asset and a very predictable nature of the investment and the return was always appealing. And when you get when you do it, right, once, you know everything else kind of flows and cascades for multiple multiple years, rather than trying to speculate on a day in day out basis, which other asset classes. Okay, so that's where it got very natural for me to get into real estate.

Brian Briscoe 6:44

Yeah, I got my first taste of that buying a single family investment. Now this is 2007. Right before the crash. Fortunately, it was Salt Lake City, which didn't experience much of the crash as far as real estate goes. Yeah. And it was it was eye opening. I mean, I watched the value of the house climb. Now watched my debt go down as the the tenants paid off the mortgage for me. Yeah, and I mean, that in another couple houses is what really launched my multifamily career. You know, I think I turned 3000 into you know, you know, six figures on that first deal. So

Hemal Badiani 7:20

that's just one deal changes your life. That's such a cliche, but anyone who's experienced that they never think the same again,

Brian Briscoe 7:29

you know, and for me, it wasn't life changing money. I mean, six figure paydays, it's not gonna last long. But the the mindset change is it really changed my life. Now you're you're into more than just multifamily, right? Correct. Yep.

Hemal Badiani 7:46

Yeah, we always, you know, in fortune 100 companies they are they specialise in one or two things. But then they always look to diversify and really pivot and be on their toes. Because every two or three months, the the economics could change, right. So my vision has always been to have everything associated with real estate, a vertically integrated farm to be created. That allows us to our property management, along with asset management, and multiple asset classes, because if you just focus on one market or one asset class, in my opinion, you tend to get impatient, sometimes overpay and really make investments that may or may not make sense to you or to your investors. So currently, we are focused on multifamily new land acquisitions for new development. triple net leases and office buildings will expand as we get more operational expertise and competencies and partners will look to expand into other asset classes as well.

Brian Briscoe 8:48

Nice, nice Now, I know you're in Charlotte, and I know a couple of your multifamily assets from Charlotte is are in North Carolina. Is that your focus area? Are you doing other stuff in the US as well?

Hemal Badiani 8:59

Yeah, again, we're not just focused on North Carolina. One asset we own is in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and another one is in Louisiana. So we focus on the southeast of three or four states in the Midwest, and then Texas, and really not just trying to go for the top five markets or top 10 markets, most of the people are looking into that. And again, my my thesis is a little contrarian, I like to go left when everybody's going right. And we will look look for secondary tertiary markets that are not the most claiming in terms of population growth or anything of that sort. That typical key measures that one would look at, but have good enough tailwinds and a community of people that want to live there in great great great places, right? So investing there are time or effort building community that allows good folks good families to live there, and really creating that impact in cities out Have the top 1020 is what we focus on.

Brian Briscoe 10:03

Yeah, you know, and I mean, top 10 cities, I think whenever a top 10 list, it's just the same thing with stocks, you know, whenever top 10 List of stocks come out, you know that the second that list hits the street, those stocks are gonna be overvalued. You just say the same thing happens with with multifamily. I mean, it's it there's a little bit longer between the flash and the bang, but top 10 list comes out. And incidentally, Charlotte is usually in every single top 10 list. Yes, everybody's gonna flock there, you know, which increases competition, which also increases prices. So yeah. You know, I think that that's a smarter approach. You know, we typically also kind of stay away from the primary markets in the top 10 markets as well. And I think we're able to find a lot more deals with less competition. Yep, absolutely. Makes sense. Yeah. So let's let's, let's talk a little bit about your your big burning. Why? I mean, you briefly mentioned it before Blitz, let's go into little more detail. What's, what's your motivation for doing this?

Hemal Badiani 10:58

Yeah, I'll tell you a little story. I mean, most people either change because of inspiration or desperation. So I had one event in my life, about four and a half years back, my one year old daughter, then I was up in Boston for a consulting gig and I got a phone call from my wife one evening, that my one year old daughter has a skull fracture, something bumped. And you know, as as you are bearing a five year old, you can imagine what goes through in your mind at that stage, you're trying to find a flight, you're trying to physically be by your family. And at that stage, I was travelling every week trying to help other clients and fortune 100 Farms. So that just you know, everything. Fortunately, when fine, she didn't need any surgery or anything of that sort, you know, friends and family helped us ensure that there was enough people around my wife and my immediate family that allowed us to make sure that she was okay. But that that incident said, Where am I renting my time? So something clicked in my brain? Is this the way I want to be? Do I want to build a career where I'm spending 80 hour weeks outside? I'm not spending time on priorities and focus? Or is there other ways to really create a life of my choosing, right, where I don't have to worry about getting laid because I have a flat tire, for example. So that just cascaded into a journey of education, investments versus into single family, change of the jobs, you know, went from management consulting, to the finance industry, and really allowed me to focus on better work life balance, then than I had before. And then, you know, that extra hours of time that I was not travelling, or working on weekends, I really dedicated myself to building that educational competency over the last few years. And before I dealt with it,

Brian Briscoe 12:55

yeah, you know, I think that's, that's something that resonates with a lot of people. I mean, sometimes it takes an event like that to see things for how they are, you know, and yeah, I think a lot of people are looking, do the exact same thing that you're doing, and be closer to the people that you love. And and not miss that too, you know, so I don't know, I look back at what I've done, you know, I'm 19 and a half years in the military. And sometimes I wish I would have picked family a lot earlier. But that's the reason I'm doing what I'm doing too is to be close to family.

Hemal Badiani 13:24

Yeah, and making the years count whatever time is there with you in this world, making it gown leaving an impact being with people being doing the things that you would want, and really passionate about. And you know, stop chasing things that don't make sense, right? It every person comes to that point at different stages in their lives. And I'm glad I did that three or four years back. So that worst incident, from my perspective, is also the best lesson learned that really changed the trajectory of my life.

Brian Briscoe 14:00

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. Sometimes misfortune you can get turned into opportunity, the unfortunate event of a skull fracture, you got to to really rethink exactly what you were doing and put you on a better path. So let's shift gears a little bit right now let's let's talk a little bit about some of the the projects you've done inside multifamily.

Hemal Badiani 14:20

Yeah, absolutely. So we have we just started in 2020 in the multifamily space, and pre COVID really had the good fortune to find two mentors, and attend a few networking events to allow us to build a consortium of partners that we could work with, right. I quickly figured out again, from a consulting world background, everything is a team sport, right? And I would rather have 1% of 100 people's efforts rather than 100% of my own. Right. And I don't come from a construction background. So I really needed the competency of operational partners around me in different asset classes that I was trying to purchase. debate in. And then the complementary skill of scaling systematising, bringing processes bringing discipline, that was my job as the CEO of exponential equity to bring to the table. So that's how we allowed ourselves through 2020 to invest passively in three communities during the spring and summertime in the midst of COVID. Which, you know, we really grateful for that we understood the fundamentals, and didn't slow down where everybody else was taking a step back. And then we've also invested in two active communities as co sponsors, one in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on in Louisiana that mentioned in each of these assets are again against the grain, these were assets that were coming up at a significant discount on the purchase price, a because of COVID, and B because they were lower occupancy, little distressed. So allows us to put in our sweat equity turned things around, very positively not trying to raise rents or anything of that sort given where we are from an economic standpoint, but really creating a better environment for more people to come and live in that community, and renovations etc, that allows us to have that familial type of attitude with our environment and atmosphere within the community that lots of families would get attracted to live in there. So that's what we've been doing. And you know, our model for that one just being as an example, very shortly on one of the deals for Tulsa, we own 208 units there. We bought it again, at you know, let's say 60 cents on the dollar from a purchase standpoint, we will be returning all of capital from investors that we took for the renovations and closing back in 18 months. That's the goal 100% and refinance at that stage and leave a perpetual equity for a long period of time in the day in the in the game. So investors are excited that they would earn a fantastic double digit return in the first 18 months, give their capital back now that they can invest given where the stock market is other asset classes might be they have the flexibility of not getting locked in for 10 years. Bring back that capital reinvested somewhere while also you have in real bringing infinite returns in terms of equity built in the asset because 100% would be refinanced. Yeah. So those are unicorns, right. We could find them again, when we kept an open mind, we understood the risks associated with the COVID environment. We understood what the market and the sub market brought to the table from a Tulsa perspective. And we understood what really was going on with the asset it was, you know, not mismanagement property perspective, the fundamentals and economics were strong asset itself was mismanaged. So we could come in marry up that opportunity in preparation and our education or investment strategy to really hone in something that provided a fantastic value for investors.

Brian Briscoe 18:09

Yeah, a couple of points I'd like to hone in hone in on is number one, creating communities. You know, you mentioned that a couple minutes ago, it's something that makes tenants sticky, you know, it does cost more and I think a lot of people will kind of shy away from the extra costs of creating communities, you know, like the events that you can throw, we had like a back to school event and one of our communities, you know, 80 unit apartment, you know, we paid for, you know, food and for bouncy houses and every everything else, but if you can create that community, the tenants are going to be a little more loyal, and a lot more sticky. Okay, and so it ends up paying for itself, you know, all the way down down the line. And the other thing that that you mentioned, and I just heard this quote, you know, once again from Warren Buffett yesterday, you know, be greedy when everybody else is fearful. Now go against the grain, you know, sometimes going against the grain is how you find the unicorns you know, not not every deal is going to be a unicorn or a home run string together a bunch of base hits and you win ballgames, you know, as well, but I learned as a kid, and I think it's the same thing as real estate every once in a while you hit that homerun, though, so yeah, yeah, it sounds like an amazing deal. I'm sure your investors are super excited. I'd be excited to be in that deal myself. So. So what's next for you? And what's next for for your company?

Hemal Badiani 19:24

Yeah, so we are scaling into multiple asset classes for multifamily. We have about few 100 units on the contract right now that we are performing the due diligence on and you know, 2021 January or February timeframe, we will be closing on one or more of those opportunities. And those are more in the North Carolina, southeast side of the the United States and then land acquisitions and we're looking at a couple of trophy office buildings again, against the grain office. People get scared by viewpoint as once at some point people want to go back. And there are office buildings that have long term leases 910 years left into them that we fundamentally are in a great location, great place one of the top 2030 cities, and you can really come in and buy deeply discounted asset just because of the fear factor. Right. And and that allows us to bring in 10 years worth of returns for investors that is truly mailbox money. So very excited about that asset class as well. Yeah, yeah.

Brian Briscoe 20:37

Yeah, I was gonna say you can just jump in on that point. I mean, with people fleeing to the telework options, you know, I telework right now, from the Pentagon, you have people exercising the telework option more and more often, I think a lot of people have looked at the office space and just kind of fled, but obviously that creates opportunities and in the right space, right time, buy for pennies on the dollar. And you know, once again, contrarian, but you know, sometimes it's contrary in the winds. Exactly. So all right. Well, that said let's let's introduce our aspiring investor. We got real tourists here on the line with us. ramil is a civil service transportation station agent in the San Francisco Bay Area, and concurrently operates a sports collectibles business. And before joining in civil service position, he co owned and operated bowling Pro Shops in two separate bowling centres. He also worked at his local sports radio station after earning his bachelor's degree in radio and television broadcasting from San Francisco State University. His motivation to invest in real estate stems mainly from his family and buying time, and we will talk a lot more about that, you know, as we get to it, so that said, remote Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Brian. Yeah, yeah. So super excited to have you on. So why don't you give us a little intro to who you are, and, and what brought you too. You want to invest in multifamily?

Ramil Torres 21:51

Yeah. Hi, I'm Rachel Torres. I'm from San Francisco, California. Yeah, my parents immigrated from the Philippines, in the early 60s. So like Hemals story. My dad was about 19 when he came to this country. So everything that I do, I'm like, very grateful for what my parents have done for me. So I won't get back into that later as to my burning Why? Yeah, so Yeah, a little bit about my background. I went to school with a communications background, I studied radio and television, one thing I wanted to do was I want to work in radio, I wanted to be a DJ, or I wanted to work in sports on the broadcasting side. So as I was studying in high school, I was applying for four different colleges and ended up at San Francisco State, which has one of the best broadcasting programmes in the nation. Of course, I wanted to be on the cool route and live away from home and party. But that didn't happen. And I'm glad I didn't do that. Because I was able to save my parents a lot of money, get my degree, and then eventually get out into the workforce.

Brian Briscoe 23:01

I missed out on the party scene in college as well. But sometimes I look back at it and you know, maybe maybe wish today I would have done a little more, but I don't know, I don't know where I'd be today if I went any other route. But I think end of the day, you know, you go to college for an education. You know, I tell my daughter this told her this quite frequently. Sometimes it's the connections you make there that they're more important the education, but Well, good enough. So now you also have you know, wife and kids, correct?

Ramil Torres 23:25

Right, right. I'm married and I have two boys. Okay.

Brian Briscoe 23:28

How old are the boys?

Ramil Torres 23:29

Sean is nine and Joey is oh my gosh, is he six now? He just turned six. Okay,

Brian Briscoe 23:37

yeah, I've got I've got a nine year old myself and a five year old and I got one in between there too. So yeah, good, good ages for you. So what what made you decide to get into multifamily?

Ramil Torres 23:48

Oh, man, I was kind of all over the place with my career after I graduated college. So I worked at the radio station for about four or five years and then realised maybe the broadcasting business wasn't for me. So I worked for the state of California for about four years. And then I don't know if you guys remember Arnold Schwarzenegger was the governor of California.

Brian Briscoe 24:10

Yeah, this I live in California when that happened. Yep.

Ramil Torres 24:13

Yes. And they were talking about, you know, possible layoffs or whatnot. So I was always trying to find ways of trying to make extra money. And I thought let's, let's let me try and do something fun that I liked. So I opened to bowling Pro Shops, in two bowling alleys. And I thought that would be something fun to do. I would get to know the people in the community since I would believe once or twice a week. Um, everybody kind of knew who we were. So we kind of created like a community within a community people would come to the pro shop and say, Hey, you know, I need some help with my equipment, and then we would help them and then in turn, they would tell other people in the bowling alley and and and then sure enough, they figured Oh, these guys run the pro shop. I did that for a few years. And then I got out of the partnership because we had found out that my son was diagnosed with autism. So I said, You know what, let me step back and let let me just work on my full time job right now. And that's when multifamily came into play. Because I was in college, or near the end of my college career, I was getting into real estate, and I took a class on California real estate principles, and they never took the test. And I looked back, and I thought, you know, what, how can I buy time? Yeah. And, and then the lightbulb went off. I said, How can I spend more time with my kids? Like, how can I maybe in the future, if I'm not working for the city of San Francisco anymore? How can I do it? And I thought, you know, what? Real Estate? Yeah. And I ran into YouTube. I was I ran to rock cliffs, want to run police videos, and I thought, Wow, you can really scale and use the Texas with advantages and everything. And that's, that's how we got here.

Brian Briscoe 26:01

Yeah, I mean, that's an amazing journey, you know, and hopefully, we can get you a kickstart on this, you know, so you're really looking to spend more time with your family. You've got a son with autism. That was your older son. Correct. So you're Yes, yes, I was born. Yep. So it's your older son with autism, and you just want to spend more time with them? Yeah. So every real estate is something that can definitely help with that you help create the passive income and get you to where you need to be. So that's it. Remember, we got him on the line here. What do you want to ask him?

Ramil Torres 26:29

Yeah, hello, hello. Good to meet you. Good. Tom, good to talk to you earlier. Right. Before we went on, one of my big questions was, I have this tendency to overthink, and I'm one of those people where everything has to be perfect before before I do it. And one one quote that that struck a chord with me was rod Cleef would say, fire aim ready? Or is it the other way around? Do you guys know?

Brian Briscoe 26:59

Yeah. So get ready, Aim. Fire standard. But yeah, you got a fire Ready, aim.

Ramil Torres 27:03

Right, right, was what he says. Yeah. So with that said, looking at deals, Hamill, you mentioned earlier that there's a lot of key measures. And, and I know you guys go against the grain. And that's something I like to do with my sports collectibles business, as well. Can you tell me about what when you look at distressed properties, and stuff like that. And then also at the same time, you want to create community. And I really like that I really like the sense of community of bring people together, because that's, that's what's really going to get both parties involved are going to benefit. The investors. And the community continue to tell me a little bit about how, how you guys, you know, like research for these properties. And you know, you know, being being in the Carolinas having boots on the ground? I'm sure that helps as well.

Hemal Badiani 27:53

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a fantastic question, right? And that talk about overthinking or shiny object syndrome. I mean, if you look at multiple asset classes you get so you know, it's easy to get distracted. And so you know, what we did, you know, coming, coming from my background, I can't do anything without a spreadsheet or PowerPoint, right. So what we did was we like, Okay, what do we need, first of all, from a market economic standpoint. So we got data points on every town, literally every town in the United States that has more than 50,000 in population. And we looked at their housing growth, income growth, population growth, and crime statistics trajectory in the next five years, any big news, etc. And we honed in on a subset of markets and said, these are the 20 or 15 places that we would love to focus on. So that was the biggest funnel that we created to make sure that we stay disciplined on the areas that we have. So once we had that, then, you know, we created a team of acquisitions, folks who have basic criteria. So we have a multi step diligence process on each asset class. So the first step is whether you're outbound reaching out to direct to sellers or brokers or reaching out to you with regards to opportunities distressed or stabilised The first thing it happens it doesn't even reach my desk, we have the acquisitions team, they would underride using the set criteria we have the first level of we have multiple financial models as well. So the first model is just for the acquisitions team tweak 1510 to 15 numbers, whether it's you know what kind of debt you would have what kind of you know occupancy right now, it is what kind of sub market analysis, average age of the people living there average median income of the sub neighbourhood as just examples and they they do their duty diligence and read out probably 80% of the deals easily, right? So we can underwrite about 100 deals a month just because of that process. And out of that 100 deals probably 15 to 20, would come to to our desk at the second step, which is where we really go into where does the comparison lie? What kind of capex schedule we can have, we have certain lenders that we reach out to just to say, Hey, what do you think about this deal, even before submitting an offer, and they're super happy to help us understand what the financial terms could be, what the insurance terms could be, etc. So we really hone in on the expense. And the third thing we try and do is just our fundamental philosophy is to kill the deal or the opportunity, we don't start with the fact that we want this opportunity we start with the fact is, how do we prove ourselves that this opportunity works, the fundamental basis is we're going to kill this this opportunity. So every piece of information that we collect, we talk to even the brokers and say why would you even pick us? Right? We might be living in an opportunity in Tulsa. Why would you make a team from North Carolina? Right? Why would you assume that expenses could go from 60%? To 50%? There's no magic to it. Right? Why would you assume that you could increase rents were 150, what is their data wise, that helps you understand, and you really have to go into the detail and understand each of those. And that's why you cannot do that 400 deals, you have to do it for 10 or 15 deals a month, and hone in on those. And that allows us to then take it to the third step, which is actual letter of intent, physical due diligence, if it's in the Carolinas, drive by the property beforehand, and then put in the the letter of intent and a price point that we are comfortable with. So you'd probably work three to five offers a month, just because of that process. And out of that, you know, three to most of the offers right now, because where we are from a discipline standpoint, we might get outbid on. And there might be one or two that works in our favour and make sense to us. Or we might be able to pay a slight premium because more information has come up based on the analysis that we've done physically, in terms of what they were renovations required. And that allows us to hone in on the deal. So it's a very systematise, multi step process that we've created over a period of time. And then each deal, we actually refine it, we come back to the table and say whether the deal has passed or, or fail, we come back to the table and say, did we do something right, but the reason it is something wrong.

Brian Briscoe 32:54

All right. Yeah, one thing I'll add to that is is their their process, they focused on a market first, I think that that's absolutely key, I mean, focus on several markets. But you know, once once you focus on a market, you can dive down, and you really got to get your reps, you know, it's just like, just like any sport, you got to get your reps and sets in, you know, before you really get good at it, you know, so pick a market, you know, start analysing deals, so you can understand what's going on in that market. And then from there, it's a lot easier to pull the trigger.

Ramil Torres 33:24

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Brian. And thanks, humble. And humble you, you guys are right. When when you mentioned reps, it's like a sport, or it's like you're lifting, lifting weights. Yeah. It's really eye opening, you mentioned going over 100 deals, and then only 10 to 15% of them come across your desk, and then and then from there, you deep dive into them. And you look at them and say, Hey, okay, which ones make the most sense and, and which ones meet our criteria? And then you go to the next stage of LSI, or letter of intent. And then another thing to think about is competition. Yeah, there's other people bidding on it. So um, yeah, I I really respect the process. This is, um, it's not easy, everyone. Everyone thinks, oh, hey, I'm gonna get into multifamily wanna make a lot of money, but,

Hemal Badiani 34:15

ya know, passively investing, anything you do on the active side, it really is a business. Right? Again, people do it for different reasons. A lot of people do it just, you know, let me do two or three deals or opportunities and be financially free, which is fantastic. Our our goal for our company is to build a business that could be a billion dollars, right? And if that's the case, you have to approach things with a different mindset. You have to understand what the vision, the values, the partnerships, the game that you create, and the type of assets that you procure, what is it leading you towards? Right and are you going in the right momentum with the right disk? Blame, and the right credibility and the right brand.

Ramil Torres 35:03

Right. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you humble. And that segues perfectly into my next question about teams, you know, in this day and age with, you know, we're meeting through the internet through zoom, and we're talking right now, via video, can you can you kind of talk to me about building a team, I know this, it's critical, and I am a people person. And I want to make sure that the people that I work with are people that, that I like, and that I trust, and that are good people. To me, of course, their pedigree is important to like having, you know, the experience. But ultimately, I want to work with people that are good people as well. Of course, you can have it both ways. You know, we're all we may ruffle each other's feathers every now and then. But that's normal. Okay, tell me about some of the challenges in regards to building building a team?

Hemal Badiani 35:57

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to me, if you're building a team, you need to look at three or four things, right? One is drive the biggest thing a working in the, in the in the corporate world, if you have a person in your team doesn't have the drive, he or she could be the smartest person in the room when you might not get any outcome. Right? So drive, integrity is the second piece, right? Third thing is understanding their strengths. So even for the team members that we hire, or partner with us, we look at things like Strength Finders, or the P index, or something that allows us to understand or through experience, understand, are they good at collaborating? Are they good at selling? Are they good at operations? Are they good at more detailed analysis, see, understanding my own strength, and understanding my Steam strength allows me to build something, I don't want to be the smartest person in the room, I want to be surrounded by very smart people that have the right integrity aligned with my vision and values. But I also have complementary skill sets to me and my, so that's the third thing I look for. And the fourth thing is, how do you define fair in terms of the partnership or the compensation or the goal structure that they have, right. And if you really understand that, and proactively layout with clear transparency, then most of the times, if you understand mix those four elements together 90% of the times in my mind, you would have a good team that at least stays there for a long period of time. Now, always, always something slips by you can have challenges in terms of bad experience. with partners, team members, it's just part of the process, right? And the earlier you understand, you you hire, you hire slow and fire fast, right? So the earlier you understand that the partnership is not working or team member is not working, and you try and understand what their strength is, again, they rotate into another role in the team or not. If not, then you know, there's just you have to depart base pretty quickly, and keep aligned to your vision and values rather than trying to mould something for each team member. So I don't know if that helps or not. But that to me that it's a it's not a science to have to find the right people, people who are driven people who are looking to work with you, people who bring good competency, who are a you know, who have great faith and integrity, those that's the right recipe. And then you really find whether they have the strengths that require skill sets can be built, right? Nobody starts as an expert, in my opinion, right? If you get a good young professional, who comes from a great background, in terms of real estate, maybe single family, maybe wholesaling, maybe, you know, other sales processes. And you they could be part of your acquisitions team. And in three months, they might be doing better than any one of us could be doing. So you have to put the faith, the time and effort once you found the right people and really elevate them to be enabled for success.

Brian Briscoe 39:10

I agree wholeheartedly with everything. He said that the one thing that I'll add is, is you have to be the good teammate as well, you know, so we're looking for team members, in order to attract team members, you've got to be a good team member. Everyone has to be going in the same direction, you know, complementary skill sets, you know, and while I don't think I could have said it better, but that said, we're we're basically essentially out of time right now. So I got one more question for each of you. And Hamill, you can go first. How can our listeners learn more about you?

Hemal Badiani 39:41

Yeah, you can reach me at Hamel at exponential dash That's our sybrand exponential equity. I'm also fairly active not as active as Brian is actually active on Facebook and LinkedIn. You can connect with me there and I'm Happy to engage with your listeners and help them with whatever journeys they might be embarking on in the world of real estate.

Brian Briscoe 40:07

Alright, sounds good. And well, we'll make sure we have that in the show notes. So if you want to contact him, just tap the show notes. And you'll have links to his LinkedIn profile, and his email address. And you also have a website x exponential. Right? Yep, that will have that in the show notes as well. All right. rymill, same thing, same question for you. How can our listeners learn more about you?

Ramil Torres 40:28

Yep, just like hemal. I'm on LinkedIn, you can find me at ramiele ra m as in Mary i L. Torres, to double r s, you can search for me on LinkedIn. You can find me there on LinkedIn. You can do a search for my hobby shop, you can just type in Nor Cal hobby shop on LinkedIn. And it'll pop up as number one, it'll say reveal Torres, proprietor of local hobby shop.

Brian Briscoe 40:56

And we'll come on in. We'll put links in the show notes as well. So if somebody's looking for it, they don't have to search. They can just tap the link.

Ramil Torres 41:02

So Oh, you know, great, great. Yep, I'm on Facebook as well. So you can find me on Facebook remiel Torres.

Brian Briscoe 41:09

Okay. Perfect. Thanks a lot. I'll say Hey, guys, I really appreciate your guys's time today. You know, I learned a lot. And you know, hopefully you guys had had a good time and learn a little bit too. Thank you, Brian.

Ramil Torres 41:20

Brian, thank you. It's a pleasure. pleasure meeting you to have

Hemal Badiani 41:23

pleasure meeting you as well. All right. And that's a wrap.

Brian Briscoe 41:32

Thank you for listening to the divergent apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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