Overcoming Analysis Paralysis with Rob Overstreet and Justin Getz
Episode 150 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Rob Overstreet and Justin Getz. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.
Brian Briscoe 0:00
So here we go. Justin, we got Rob on line, what do you want to ask him?
Justin Getz 0:03
I've got a little bit of that resident background. But again, like I mentioned earlier, it's it's different from the commercial space, which is still somewhat intimidating. How would you advise somebody kind of in my shoes and taking steps in these early days? and Part B, that is kind of how did you navigate that for yourself in your business,
Rob Overstreet 0:19
imperfect action beats perfect action. In other words, don't get caught up, you know, making sure that everything is perfect. It's better just to go forward. Now, when you talk about analysis, the first thing that comes to mind is the underwriting. I can tell you from my experience, it developed my knowledge base and my ability to be able to sniff out a good deal from a bad deal, but it also developed my vernacular.
Brian Briscoe 0:50
Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing.This is journal entry number 150. In part of our Ask the Expert series, Today we speak with experienced investor Rob Overstreet and aspiring investor Justin gets keep listening to learn how to overcome analysis paralysis, and how to build systems to start scaling your business. And now the show Welcome to the diamond apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe. With frogs capital. Super excited for today's show. I'm always excited for every show. I have a lot of fun when we do these. This is one of our Ask the Expert episodes we have two great people on the line with us today. We got a guy with a tonne of experience in commercial real estate Rob Overstreet, and a very motivated aspiring investor Justin gets. So first of all, Rob is a cash flow specialist capital raiser syndicator real estate investor. And he's the CEO of harbour drive holdings. His firm is successfully syndicated over $25 million of apartment real estate to date, and focuses primarily on opportunities located in the Midwest and sunbelt regions of the United States. He's got a background in hospitality business, and incidentally, I'll put his full bio in the show notes to check that out. But we're just gonna say, Rob, welcome to the show.
Rob Overstreet 2:27
Thanks for having me, Brian. I'm excited to be here.
Brian Briscoe 2:30
Yeah. So excited to have you in Incidentally, for the listeners here. You know, Rob was introduced to me by by one of my partners. I think you guys are in a mastermind together. Is that right? That's right. Yep. All right, continually learning and honing your craft. That's great. So let's talk a little bit about you and your background. Tell us you know, where you came from, and kind of, you know, walk us through what got you into commercial real estate?
Rob Overstreet 2:54
Yeah, thank you. I'll go ahead and start in my college days I I'm originally from Southern California. I grew up in a community called Imperial Valley, which is east of San Diego, and went to school at San Diego State. I studied economics. And I met my wife there, which is fantastic. So while I was in school, I was in the hospitality business. As you mentioned, restaurant hospitality. I worked for a company called Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. you've ever heard of it?
Brian Briscoe 3:21
I think most people have.
Rob Overstreet 3:23
Yeah, yeah, great place. good steak. And just great atmosphere was a fantastic experience. And so I worked there, you know, through college and a little bit beyond. And I tell people, I got my PhD in hospitality, right and communication there. Because, you know, we're dealing with people and, and so forth. But, you know, sometime during my tenure there, the company went public, and they went on this expansion rampage, they were opening Ruth's Chris locations in every market. And so they asked me if I would start doing some corporate trainings, so they would send me to a variety of cities for you know, weeks at a time, where I'd help, you know, train the staff, educate them on company, culture, etc. And there were definitely opportunities for me to advance in that Corporation. But deep down inside, I always had the entrepreneurial spirit. And so I started looking for other other options. And so, from there, I actually purchased a franchise business of a Minuteman press, printing, graphic design, promotional products, b2b stuff. And I operated that for several years, but during that period, I started to get involved in educating myself on real estate, passive income, wealth creation. And I guess that all started where probably most of us started which was by reading the book Rich Dad Poor Dad, right. And, you know, the concepts there just just clicked and it just turned this light bulb on and so started exploring, go into events, networking, you know, in the real estate, space learning, reading every book I could get my hands on, and really just, you know, started looking for A mentor that I could learn from and potentially partner with. And that's exactly what happened. I was at an event in the San Francisco Bay area was a real estate related multi day workshop type of deal and met some folks there we connected, kept the dialogue going, I started, you know, looking at deals together, which led to putting in some offers together, which led to closing our first deal, which was a 79 unit apartment deal in Dallas. And from that point on, I was bitten by the bug. And so we, you know, started looking for more deals, we're trying to build the portfolio, we closed on a couple others. And about that time, my time commitment with my franchise business was and my time commitment with my, you know, growing real estate business, we're kind of tugging at opposite ends of each other, right. And so my wife and I made the decision that I was going to sell the franchise, Minuteman press, and I was going to go 100% real estate, because we believe that this was going to be the future for us, our family, and everything else. And so I've been full time in the business now the past three years. Which brings me to this show today.
Brian Briscoe 6:05
Yeah, nice. Nice. You know, I think a lot of people, I mean, have a similar, at least, I did, you know, so I've been active duty Marine Corps for a long time. And, you know, when I started doing this, on this side, it got to the point to where I realised that it was one or the other, you know, when, when it was small, and we had one property, you know, it's it's easy to moonlight, but when you start scaling and gaining a lot of traction, at some point, you know, I had to make the same decision. It's one or the other. And that's when I decided to retire. 100% But yeah, and I've been full time in this business for like, three weeks now. So I'm excited to you know, three years from now be and be in your position. That's awesome. Now, your company right now is harbour drive holdings. I know we talked a little bit about that. You know, I think a Monday about you know, why, but explain to everybody else. Why harbour drive holdings?
Rob Overstreet 6:56
Yes, thank you. We, I have one partner in this business. We're, you know, joint co founders of the company and my partner and I met in my Ruth's Chris days, we both worked for the company. And over the years, we both been involved together and separate and various different businesses, etc. And, but, you know, he's one of my closest friends. And you know, we started learning about real estate together and and so we formed harbour drive holdings, and the significance behind the name is because the Ruth's Chris location that we both worked at originally was located on harbour drive in San Diego. I know Brian, you know exactly where that is. harbour drive is this beautiful street that just kind of wraps around the San Diego harbour waterfront, it's gorgeous. So and, you know, I've
Brian Briscoe 7:42
lived in San Diego County for you know, seven years, I think, I know, Imperial Valley. Well, as you know, too, there's some real core training areas out there. But yeah, harbour drives absolutely beautiful. And we spent a lot of time on that harbour drive. So you know, glad you could you can make that part of your your company name, it really, really mean something. So let's see, one thing that I like to ask everybody is, what is your big burning? Why what's what's your motivation for doing what you do?
Rob Overstreet 8:15
That's an easy one. Brian, it's my wife and my kids. I mentioned to you that I met my wife in college. We were both freshmen living in the dorms, you know, I was in one side of the, you know, wing, and she was in another wing. And we dated about 10 years before we got married. So, by the time we were engaged, I knew her family very well, and everything else and her father asked me, you know, told me rather it's about time, right?
Brian Briscoe 8:39
Yeah. married and so you mean? Yeah,
Rob Overstreet 8:41
yeah. 1010 years dating. That's, that's plenty. So. So we've been married now. 10 years, too. So you know, it's time flies. And we've been together about 20 years. But fast forward two kids, we have two beautiful children, a five year old daughter and a one year old son and you know, my wife, my kids, that's my burning why we feel that real estate investing, as in real estate investments are one of the best vehicles for wealth creation and positive income cash flow from your passive investments. Love it.
Brian Briscoe 9:16
Yeah, you know, fam family is huge for me as well. And, you know, I'll tell you so far this is this has allowed me to live where I want to live, you know, where we just moved to Idaho Falls for generations of briscoes have called southeast Idaho home and now five and six with my kids. And then my wife's family lives here too. So, you know, it's not a huge Metro. There's about 100,000 people within you know, 50 mile radius, but you know, it's something that I wouldn't be able to do without real estate you know, if it wasn't for for this this multifamily business that we've created, you know, I'd still be probably be sitting in the Pentagon right now looking at, you know, where am I going next? You know, what's, what's my next assignment going to be? But it's given me more opportunities to write my own ticket, you know, create my own path, so to speak. And I guess that's really what entrepreneurship is about. So not for everybody, but I'm glad, I'm glad we did it. Let's shift gears slightly here. And I'd love to hear about, you know, one of the one of your deals one of your properties, pick your favourite one, pick your most recent one, but tell us about one of the things you've done.
Rob Overstreet 10:24
Um, you know, I'll just share with you our most recent transaction a little bit smaller deal, it's located in Hot Springs, Arkansas, outside of Little Rock, it's an 89 unit, late 80s constructed apartment community. And this one I like, because it's got really good cash flow, it's just kind of down the fairway, no hair on it, the seller was actually BSR, which is a little rock based public wreath, they're traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange. And so I'm, I guess an experience to share there would be working with a really high quality seller, because I can share some stories where we bought from not so nice sellers, and it can be a lot of heartburn to say the least, and you probably know something about that, buying a deal from a from a read was a real thrill. I mean, they had all their T's crossed their eyes dotted, you know, the deal was in impeccable condition, by the time it was delivered to us, you know, zero deferred maintenance. And really just a nice, nice project. I mean, we closed on that one about a year ago. And you know, it's just kind of steady Eddy down the fairway a little bit of value, add you know, we have a budget to do a handful of the units with a mild upgrade some floors and countertops and appliances as needed. But it's not a real deep roll up your sleeves, opportunistic kind of a project, you know, just just straight and narrow and just operate. So
Brian Briscoe 11:51
yeah, you know, that there's lots and lots of different philosophies to you know, which investment opportunities you chase but and you say that a lot of things were manually kept, but there's a lot of regulation that goes into the reads a lot of the financial reporting they have to do to the SEC and whatnot. And I know that the reads spend a lot of time and money making sure that all the i's are dotted and T's are crossed. So you know, when you when you mentioned that, that's that's what first came to mind is I bet you their financials were you know, spot on the track down to the penny every time. And you know, being reached. I mean, they're not looking at, they're, they're looking for steady cash flow too. And so, you know, a lot of a lot of goodness in there, and you handed you guys a well maintained property, which you guys were able to, you know, keep on doing the same with
Rob Overstreet 12:38
So, clean financials, I mean, you could eat off of those, those t twelves. I mean, they were just crystal clean. And what you know, another cool thing is, you can put that on the resume, you know, when when I'm out there talking with brokers, you know, and you know, this, Brian, you get into a best and final situation and start to ask, you know, some, you know, due diligence questions about you, as a buyer, etc, if show me some references and things, I mean, when we've just put BSR down as one of our references. It carries a lot of weight, which is really cool.
Brian Briscoe 13:07
Yeah, and that's, that's something that distinguishes, you know, different investment groups, you know, and I think if you if you put your your broker or your seller hat on, there's there's a couple of things they're looking for. I mean, price is one, but I think most people are looking for a couple things. Obviously, price is important. But they're also looking for somebody who is going to be a guaranteed close. And somebody who's not going to be Yeah, they're not gonna be difficult. They're not looking for the drama queen, so to snack so somebody who is easy to transact with somebody who's going to guarantee you the clothes and give you a good price, you know, so, when it comes down to that, yeah, if you get that letter recommendation from a big reach, saying, Hey, you know, we we transacted with these guys, they're great. That's, that's gonna set you guys apart from, you know, maybe the next company who who's giving a similar price with similar history. So yeah,
Rob Overstreet 14:02
and Brian, that wasn't the intention, you know, like, let's go buy a deal from a read, you know, it just happened and worked out that way. And they worked out to be it was a very enjoyable experience, you know, through the transaction. And I know that from experience that sometimes these transactions get a little hairy so yeah, that one was about as clean as we can hope for.
Brian Briscoe 14:23
Yeah, and I you know, I we haven't sat in the cellar seat yet. We're about to be sellers on our first transaction here. But I'm curious to see you know, what, what it's like when I'm actually in that seat, you know, right now, I, I put my hypothetical sellers hat on. You know, I've sold several single family investment properties, but never never multifamily yet, but I can imagine there's, you know, lots of give and take on both sides. And hopefully we can be the non difficult sellers when we finally sell too. So we'll see about that. So another another question that I'd like to ask everybody. What's next for you?
Rob Overstreet 14:59
You know, Bill portfolio right. And I know you know this, it's the two lowest common denominators in the business is deal flow and investor flow and nurturing the investors in your database. And so, you know, the the playbook is quite simple, you know, it's find good deals and find good investors that match up with you, right, and not all investors are good match for us. And that's fine. And likewise, we're not a good match for all investors. So yeah, nurturing our investor contacts, our limited partners, you know, in our database and providing as much value to them as possible, you know, we send out lots of resources to our investor community on an ongoing basis, and really just nurture them and then provide them with, you know, high quality investment opportunities. And if the timing is right, then great. And if it's not, that's fine, too. So, you know, those are the two things that we're focused on. Yeah. And
Brian Briscoe 15:51
that's a good point, you know, not not every investor is right for you. And you're not right. For every investor. I think. We talked a little bit about your different investment philosophies. You know, if you're a passive investor listening, and you know, trying to find a sponsor, you find somebody who's aligned with your investment goals, you know, because, you know, 111 company may be looking to buy and hold and look for cash flow, another company may look to do a value add, and just, you know, try to maximise returns, there are different investment philosophies. And not every company is right for every person and vice versa. I'm glad you brought that up. Thanks. Yeah. So, all right. Well, let's introduce our next guest, we got Justin gets on the line. He's a father, husband and a software account executive. He co founded a company undertaking various residential operations in the peak of the 2008 recession, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that, you know, fix and flips, new construction, buy and hold single family homes and a couple other things, but now he's turning his attention into multifamily. So here we go. Justin, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brian. I
Justin Getz 16:55
appreciate it. And and Rob, it's a pleasure to meet you as well. Really excited to be here. I've listened to a bunch of your content, Brian, and it's just it's pretty exciting that I'm actually on an episode with you so grateful for that. Oh, good. Yeah. No, I was just gonna say yeah, I'm really excited. So
Brian Briscoe 17:12
awesome. Yeah. Well, well, thanks. Thanks for being a listener. And you've also been to one of our weekly networking events. And I hope you keep coming to those. So it's great getting to know you a little bit last weekend. And maybe we'll see again this Friday, too. So let's let's talk about you now. Tell us a little about yourself, your background and history and what got you into apartment investing?
Justin Getz 17:34
Yeah, so I grew up in South Texas, right along the border of Mexico. My father moved there from Maryland, actually where I was born, but I moved pretty young. And he was in the the media space he he was operating a local affiliate there news, affiliate and diversity of taxes in Austin. I'm Austin base now, and go horns. And so while here, I actually reconnected with a good buddy of mine, who is a pretty successful operator in the commercial space. I grew up with him. We went to school together elementary and middle school. And so I basically took him to lunch. And I said, Hey, what do you do? I have no idea what you're doing. But I know it's cool. And can you can you tell me about it. And it turns out he was in apartments, and that that's what he had been doing. He started with a 10 unit and just really exploded from there. graciously. He invited me to come kind of apprentice with him. And I was kind of dialling a bunch of, you know, property owners seeing if they would sell and, you know, going down lists, and this was 2005. Maybe. And eventually, he came to me a few months later, and he said, Look, I don't even have time to kind of train you the way I want to. And so I feel like it's doing you a disservice. And so I said, Hey, no problem. We parted on very good terms. I think at the time I was employed two or three, and he has I think over 1000 employees now or something like that. Yeah, he operates pretty pretty large property management and, and capital company. But anyway, all that is what kind of got that feel for real estate. All that to be said, I had still no idea what to do in the commercial space. It was just still intimidating for me. So I said, well, I've seen a lot of these flip shows on TV. I know a couple, you know, single family investors. Yeah, it seems a little more manageable. And so I actually went off with my father to start an investment and development company in the residential space. And so we operated in San Antonio, that's leading right into and a little beyond the recession. So fix and flips, new new construction development, luxury townhome project was our big one, that actually, I can share the story if you want but that that build was leading into and concluded after the the big bubble. So that was that was an interesting project. But yeah, and so I've done a lot on the residential side over the last 10 years, I've kind of pivoted more into a nine to five In tech sales and everything software and but I've never lost that, that yearning to learn more about commercial and multifamily and so that's, I've really kind of read dedicated my focus there for the last kind of year or so.
Brian Briscoe 20:13
Yeah, yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of similarities. I mean, my first couple of investments for single family and I kind of did the same thing you know, you know, Rob mentioned Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I know, Justin, you, you nodded your head when you mentioned it, too. But I've told this many times on the podcast, but I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I'm like, Huh, commercial real estate. That sounds interesting, too complicated. And I just reverted down to single families. And that's how I got my start in real estate was. This is before fixing flip shows, were really on TV, you know, it's just like, well, I can probably figure out how to buy a single family home. And that's what I did. I bought a single family home moved into it, you know, six months later moved out and put renters in and did that a couple of times. And so yeah, now now, now you're trying to get into the multifamily game. And, you know, I love it. I love it. So, same question. I'm gonna ask that I asked Rob and asked you, what's your big burning? Why?
Justin Getz 21:09
Yeah, I love this question. Because my wife says, I'm pretty emotional. And, and so I am tied very much to the burning wife, it's really evolved, I would say, when I first started in my residential real estate, you know, endeavours back then it was really about my desire to help and to do what I could to provide a service for others. And that was, you know, whether it's a roof over someone's head, whether it's the ability to help put some income into the pockets of partners, and trades people and all of these awesome, you know, people that I was connected with, and networked with as part of our business. It just, it felt rewarding. And honestly, there was a component that I still love when I was part of building something. And I get to drive by and say, Hey, we did that. Like, it's still it's standing the test of time. And it's my little, tiny piece of the pie my imprint right in the world. And I think I know, there's something really profoundly proud I feel when I see that, you know, yeah, that was then it's honestly become more selfish. Now. My Why? And that's because I became a father. So yeah, you know, two years ago, and Rob, you hit it on the head when you were talking about your family. And that's very much strikes a chord with me, it's just, you know, two years ago, little over two years ago, I had my first my son, and I call that my inflection point in my life. And that's really, he is the end all be all. And the reason I do anything, so everything I'm doing now and why my priorities and kind of strategies have aligned more to what multifamily seems to seems to offer based on everything I'm studying is that that's, I want more time with him. I want to I want the experience to be there. And so that's, that's what drives me now.
Brian Briscoe 22:50
Yeah, absolutely good. Yeah. And my wife centres around my family too. I mean, that the moment that I really decided to change was when I realised that I've missed too many birthdays. I have five kids, you know, so five wives. When I realised that I had missed, you know, so many birthdays and so many Christmases and so much time, especially with my older daughters, I'll never get back you know, and, and now I've got a couple of younger kids, hopefully, I can give them a different childhood didn't mind my oldest kids, but something you mentioned about, you know, building I remember my my first job at a high school, I worked for a roofing company, and I've shingle houses, but just the way you said it brought that memory back to me, I used to, you know, if I was driving by a house that I knew that I had shingles, I would actually go out of my way to drive right in front of the house and look at and say, Yep, we did that. But yeah, it's, it's, it's something that I think it's, it's good to see that you're changing things for the better. And, you know, we've got another complex in Columbia, South Carolina that we we purchased. And when we purchased it, you could probably call it a slump. I mean, literally, it was it was that bad. But, you know, we've put, you know, almost $20,000 per unit in to to fix it up and make it better. And I drove by that two weeks ago, and, you know, I had to stop and you know, just wow, we did that, you know, and it's amazing what we what you can do, you can help other people you can make their living conditions better and, and it's, it's a good thing help a lot of people. So now comes my favourite point of the show. Where Justin, I'm going to hand you the mic. So So here we go. Justin, we got Rob on the line. What do you want to ask him?
Justin Getz 24:34
Yeah, yeah, definitely want to capitalise on this. Rob. So, you know, speaking of Kiyosaki, you know, I was recently rereading cashflow quadrant, and he's got a passion where he writes that as what he calls a students often struggle with analysis paralysis, and that's because of their worry about making mistakes and kind of part of the educational system. incentivizing not to and that's kind of that little trepidation moving in. into, as we see it investing in Old World. So I've got a little bit of that resident for background. But again, like I mentioned earlier, it's it's different from the commercial space, which is still somewhat intimidating, despite the podcasts and the books and the meetups and all of that. So I'm curious, you know, how would you advise somebody kind of in my shoes and taking steps in these early days? And, you know, part B of that is kind of how did you navigate that for yourself and your business?
Rob Overstreet 25:28
Well, first of all, congratulations on your son. That's really exciting. I forget who the quote is by, but it's one of my favourite quotes, which is imperfect action beats perfect action, right. In other words, don't get caught up, you know, making sure that everything is perfect. It's better just to go forward. Now, when you talk about analysis, the first thing that comes to mind is an analysis paralysis specifically is is the underwriting and so I don't know if your underwriting right now, but I can tell you from my experience, that's kind of the first place we started. And we've started educating ourselves and going to these events, and I started underwriting as many deals as I possibly could. And what that did for me in the early days, was it, it developed my knowledge base and my ability to be able to sniff out a good deal from a bad deal, but it also developed my vernacular, right? So you're out there looking for deals, looking for partners, talking with brokers, they can smell it, if you're new, and if you if you speak the language of you know, apartment investing, it gives you the confidence and it gives a potential partner the confidence in you, it gives the broker the confidence in you. And I felt at least in my experience, not saying this is right or wrong place to start, but developing a really good understanding of how to underwrite a deal, how to look at you know, and the difference between, you know, certain things and a t 12. You know, are they Capitalising certain things that they shouldn't be, you know, that are above or below the line and, and that that comes with repetition, right. And so, in the early days, we were just underwriting absolutely anything that walked just to get those reps in, and over time it developed us, you know, in terms of experience, and you might not think, well, underwriting is that's not experience, what is that you're developing the language of the business, and you're developing your sense of being able to point out a good deal versus a bad one.
Brian Briscoe 27:22
I would also say with reps and sets, you get to know areas, you know, you get to know what's what's going on in places, you know, I think one of the keys with with my progression was when I actually started trying to focus in one specific area. At first, I was underwriting everything, which I think is important. You're right, the reps and sets are important. But when I started focusing on, you know, two cities, I started seeing trends, you know, I started being able to say, I know what the water bill should be, because at the end of 2012, that I've looked at the water bill has been about 35 to $40 per unit per month. You know, I know what your insurance should look like, here. I know what this should look like there. So there's, there's a lot of it there. And I wholeheartedly agree with the was, I think you said imperfect action beats perfect inaction or something like that, because that's how I did it. You know, I did a lot of trial and error. Looking back at, you know, with the knowledge I have now, I probably would have done a little differently. But most people just do the trial and error and get better.
Rob Overstreet 28:26
Yeah, it can seem overwhelming. And what Brian just said is true, that if I could go back in time, I might do it a little bit different, where I'm still doing the reps underwriting the deals, but I would have also allocated time to networking with more investors, passive investors and educating those folks as well. It took us a couple of years before we realised the importance of that side of the business, because I think I mentioned it earlier. I mean, the two lowest common denominators are find good deals and find good investors. You know, there's many layers above that asset management, negotiation disposition, you know, all of that, but two most basic components, find good deals, find good investors.
Justin Getz 29:06
That's, that's great input. And I got a note here of the of those two pillars. I think my sales background I've been told lends itself a little bit to the capital raising and kind of investor relationship side. So I'm trying to find, as part of that partnership hunt, the complimentary experience sweet, right, and the personalities that kind of fit that, so that I can, I can add value and make a good partnership there. So that's, that's really, really good stuff kind of off the back of that. I'm curious. You know, another common piece of advice that shared is around having processes and systems in place to grow at a healthy clip, especially in the beginning and then what it looks like, you know, through maybe the first second acquisitions and then scaling but you know, what I hear a lot is on the system side. I hear a lot about to get systems in place, but not necessarily the tangible Tactical aspect of what that means, right? Like, what, what are these systems? So I'm curious in how you would define that for your business, and what that looked like for you and getting some of these actions in place near the beginning of your journey.
Rob Overstreet 30:13
Yeah, I gotta be honest, when we first got started, you know, again, we're imperfect action. And so, you know, we didn't have a lot of systems early on, we knew what we wanted to do. And we just went and did it. And at the beginning, it was underwrite deals and network with potential partners. We had no experience. And so subconsciously, I suppose going into events, networking, with people looking for partners, but it's not like we had a daily sales meeting where we said, okay, today, we're going to find a partner. And there's a system by which we follow, we were just doing it as, as we, you know, did a few more deals. I mean, we started developing systems around, you know, the asset management piece, and we're still developing new systems today around, you know, fostering relationships with investors and potential partnership relationships, and, you know, our broker relationships, but as far as developing systems, it started slow. And I would say, we didn't have any initially, you know, we were just just go, right. And as far as today, you know, we're developing systems, and we'll probably continue to develop systems for all of time, right? Just always improve, look for better, more efficient ways to do things. So I, I'm sorry, for the bad answer. But you know, initially, you know, we didn't really have many systems, it was just just get started someplace, you know,
Brian Briscoe 31:35
you know, and I, I'm gonna give a similar bad answer. I mean, we've been doing this for two years, and we're still establishing a lot of the systems, I think, I think some of the systems, like, if you only have one property, you don't really need systems. You know, so when you do one property, it's just like, Okay, well, you know, we get the financials, we do this, but, you know, as you scale on, you get more and more properties, you know, now you now you have to rely on those systems and more. So, you know, it's like, Okay, now we're getting our monthly reports. No, so the property manager sends us a whole slew of reports, you know, what do we do with those reports? Well, our asset manager is going to boil the reports down into our KPIs, you know, what are key performance indicators, you know, what's the vacancy? What's the collections where those So, I mean, we've started, you know, internally doing a lot better on the reporting, you know, in another system, you know, it's really, it's just, what are you going to do when, you know, it's like, Hey, this is something that's repeatable, it's something we do every month. So every time we do it, we're gonna do it exactly the same. You know, or when we underwrite deals, this is how we're going to underwrite deals, this is how we're going to submit otherwise, every time we do it, we're gonna do it the same. You know, one thing that we've systematised is, for the most part, we're using the same laminate vinyl planks in every single unit, you know, same vendor, same colour, same everything, we're using the same ceiling fans the same lighting the same. So it helps us with our construction with our renovation budget, because, you know, we know the cost per square foot of the planking, we know the cost per, you know, every ceiling fan and everything else. So I think a lot of the systems and we're still developing them, and we're still, we've got, we've got 500 units right now, and soon to be 630 ish, but it's just a matter of looking at the things you do repeatedly, and figure out how to save time doing it.
Rob Overstreet 33:33
And recognising bottlenecks, you know, and what you can outsource I mean that, you know, I don't know if this would qualify as a system, but you know, outsourcing certain things that are maybe not the best use of your time. And I know, Brian, you were talking before about virtual assistants with us, we're also in the process of interviewing and trying to bring on a new VA to help us in our day to day, you know, take some things off my plate that that way I can focus on, you know, highest and best use activities.
Brian Briscoe 34:04
Yeah, that's been that's been huge, too. Wow.
Justin Getz 34:07
That's awesome. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And despite the non answers, those are very much answers. They're, they're qualified, good answers. Yeah. Even even if it's, you know, not anticipated. So I appreciate that feedback.
Brian Briscoe 34:20
Yeah. I'll just say,
Rob Overstreet 34:21
I'm super, super smart, you know, a response to that. But in the beginning, I mean, we really just started just vnl Okay, let's go in this direction. And we did you know, and,
Brian Briscoe 34:30
yeah, it's a work in progress. And I mean, you know, two years after closing on our first property, you know, we're, we're, we're starting to do things, you know, the same way every time. You know, the first couple, you're still learning, you're still figuring out how you want to do things. And then eventually, the systems will look. I mean, if you want to scale you have to have the systems.
Justin Getz 34:53
Absolutely. That's, that's fantastic. You know, I'd mentioned that I was in Austin earlier and something broad that you mentioned kind of working Midwest and your most recent deal. Being an in a little bit of a smaller market. I'm curious to get, you know, your perspective on what it looks like to focus more wholeheartedly in secondary or potentially even tertiary markets. In the modern era of investing, and what that looks like, you know, being Austin based, it's pretty competitive. We all know, Austin is a super huge growth market. And there are a number of eyes on everything in the outlying area. So, you know, personally, I'm also trying to potentially look into something that's, you know, a secondary market myself. So I'm just curious, your perspective, do you see that trend as well? And just what are your thoughts on that in terms of competition in terms of how that affects your business model and whatnot?
Rob Overstreet 35:49
Lots to unpack there? The short answer is, I love secondary and tertiary markets. with some exceptions, we typically like to see a minimum population in a metro of 100,000 people, you know, I've looked at deals in cities that have 20,000. And, to us, it's all about risk adjusted return for investing partners. And it just feels like these smaller markets, it just it feels a little too risky. Now you get compensated in the higher cap rates in some of these tertiary, super tertiary places. But to us, it doesn't justify that kind of risk. I know Austin is is extremely competitive right now. One of the hottest markets in the country, there are some areas outside of that, that we really like. In between Austin and San Antonio, places like San Marcos, temple and Killeen, Texas, I mean that that whole area, that corridor between Austin and San Antonio, we really like a lot. But in general, you know, when you're out there looking at deals, if it's in a core Metro versus a secondary or tertiary area. In today's marketplace, we're not seeing wild differences in cap rate, like I said, unless you go to some super tertiary with, you know, 10 20,000 population, you might find a six or maybe a seven cap, but if it's yield you're chasing, I would focus a lot more on on the areas, you know, demographic profile, job growth, you know, future rent growth, net positive migration patterns, these types of things to make sure that it's it truly is a good area, because right now, today's phase of the of the real estate cycle, it's not like you're gonna go to a tertiary and find some, you know, eight cap rate, I mean, people are chasing deals all over the place and pain through the nose for him. That's not to say that there aren't great deals out there, because I believe we can all make money in any phase of the cycle. And I think there's great deals out there today, right now, it's just don't be fooled by, you know, a little bit higher cap rate in a market that still doesn't have those good underlying fundamentals.
Brian Briscoe 37:55
Yeah, I agree with a lot. I mean, that the trend in demographics is the same as a trend investing. A lot of people are moving out of the metros. I mean, Austin is still growing, yes, but a lot of people are moving out of the the high cost of living, high population density. And actually they're moving from cold to warm to sort of moving from high cost of living to low cost of living, high population density, low population density, and cold the warm in a lot of areas. So you see that happening and people are people are moving to tertiary markets a lot more. And investors are moving to tertiary markets. I mean, we're we're buying we're in a contract right now. 444 unit property in you know, a city that's got like, like 80,000 with you, when you when you add the metro area, and it's a hub city, but when you had the metro area, and you're looking at 200,000, and we're getting a low five cap rate, you know, so a lot of the investors are looking for the secondary and tertiary markets for yields. You just have to be careful. It's something that we like, you know, we like growth corridors. So we we've targeted the it five corridor between Atlanta and Charlotte, you know, Atlanta is growing, Charlotte's growing in everything that's fueling the growth in those two cities is present along the I five corridor. And, you know, when you look at where growth happens, those major corridors are the first place that that's where that's where things start to expand, they start start to expand along these freeways, you know, and the next exit down starts to build, you know, so when you look at those corridors, you just got to look at population dynamics and where things go. And incidentally, I moved Idaho Falls two weeks ago, it's one of the fastest growing communities and, you know, I've spent a lot of time on my motorcycle cruising around looking for where the growth is which direction it's going. And I think that's, that's really what you want to look at is, you know, if you're looking at those secondary and tertiary markets, are they in that path of progress? Are they out in the sticks, you know, if they're out in the sticks, I think your risk is going to be a little higher. If they're on when those growth corridors. I think you got a better shot. That said we are about out of time. Time flew this was this actually went by super quick. But thanks to both of you for coming on the show. I got one last question for each of you, Rob, you go first, how can the listeners learn more about you?
Rob Overstreet 40:17
Thanks for having me, Brian and Justin, I appreciate you coming on the show. It was great to meet you. I'd love to continue dialogue with you and help in any way that I can. People can reach me on on LinkedIn Rob Overstreet, or email Rob at harbour drive holdings calm. Or if you'd like to learn more about our business, go check out our website, harbour drive holdings calm, there's an option at the upper right corner of the webpage. If you'd like you can join our investor club, we send our investors lots of cool resources and things to educate them on some of the benefits and trends and things happening today. So if you'd like to learn more about our company, you can join our investor club straight on our homepage of our website, harbour drive holdings calm. All right, we'll put all that information in the show notes. If you want to connect with them with LinkedIn, send them an email, check out his website. It'll be in the show notes. Justin, same question for you. how
Brian Briscoe 41:06
can listeners learn more about you?
Justin Getz 41:09
Yeah, pretty much most of the social media channels. LinkedIn is probably one of the better places to reach me. I'm pretty, pretty communicative. So if anybody messages or comments, I'll pretty much get back to anybody. So I would say yeah, LinkedIn for now, for all the branding and whatnot, hopefully coming soon. So we'll get we'll save that for a later date.
Brian Briscoe 41:29
All right, sounds great. Once again, thank you two gentlemen, for coming on the show today. This was a lot of fun. I hope to see you guys both again soon sometime.
Thank you for listening to the divergent apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.
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