Mindset Shifts with Brandon Turner and Bud Evans



Episode 216 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Brandon Turner and Bud Evans. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.


Listen to the episode here




Brian Briscoe 0:00

Hey bud, we got Brandon Turner on the line. What do you want to ask him?


Bud Evans 0:03

What's one thing that completely shifted your mindset?


Brandon Turner 0:07

So a few years ago bigger pockets sold the company bigger pockets sold to private equity and they install a new board of directors a chairman of the board gentlemen named Mike and Mike is been around the block for decades. I mean, business after business after business, one of the smartest business minds I've ever met, we're sitting down with Mike the first time ever meet him at BiggerPockets. We're telling Mike all these things that we have. And after like 20 minutes of that of him being you know, generous to us and letting us ramble. He finally holds up his hand and he says, Guys, stop telling me what you have and what you're gonna do with it. Tell me what's possible and what you need to get there. And I don't know why I had never thought that way my entire life, but it was just like, like mind blown like, this is one of the things that transformed my entire like made opener capital what it is today.


Brian Briscoe 0:56

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment fields to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. Welcome to the diary apartment investor podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe with four oaks capital. Very excited for today's show. I know I always say I'm very excited for the shows because I am but you know, if I had to rank my excitability level on this one, I think I'm 10 out of 10 here because we have two great people with us, Brandon Turner, who really needs no introduction, and Bud Evans. So that said, Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's an honor to be here. Yeah. Well, as tradition, we're gonna start with our experienced investor first. So Brandon, please tell us a little bit about yourself where you came from and how you got into this real estate thing, sir, man.


Brandon Turner 1:57

So by the way, it's funny that you mentioned the geeks that you say you're excited every time every show I've ever done in my life. I'm always like, that's my favorite show I've ever done. Yeah. My co host doesn't matter. It's always my favorite. So


Brian Briscoe 2:08

yeah. So somebody asked me what my favorite show was the other day, and I'm like, Huh, where's this one? There's that one. There's this? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So they're all good anyway. Yeah. All right.


Brandon Turner 2:18

Yeah. So how do I get in real estate? So I got into the small multifamily space, I bought a house and then like, I sold it, I made some money. And I was like, this real estate thing could work. I was 21 years old. And then I bought a duplex, I lived in one half rented other half out. And I was like, This is awesome. Like, I'm actually living for free. And I thought, well, if I'm making, you know, a few 100 bucks in just profit off of this thing. What if I had a bunch of them and that was kind of like the initial like, like, let's just get a bunch. And then I had this idea of like, if I can have 30 units, like 30 rental units, and each one's making me 100 bucks in profit. That's $3,000 a month, I would be so rich. I have $3,000 a month to retire like that was literally all my thought right? When you're 21 3000 a month is crazy money. So I spent the next six seven years of my life building up a portfolio of 30 rental units, mostly those small like, you know, multifamily duplex, triplex four plexes. Some single family house in there did some flipping. And then by the time I was 27, I had my three grand a month and I said, Okay, I'm done, I quit, I quit my job. Yeah, I was like, I'm done. And then I realized that there's not a lot you can do on three grand a month, especially with a family, you know. So I jumped back in and bought a 24 unit apartment complex, and then later bought a 50 unit mobile home park. In that process, somewhere in there, I started the BiggerPockets Podcast alongside Josh Dorkin. And the last two years have just been a rocket ship where we've gone from, and I went from roughly 100 units to just over 3000 Over the past two years. So it's been just a crazy shift and kind of a hockey stick. Exponential growth.


Brian Briscoe 3:50

Yeah. Well, one thing I'd like to point out, and I mentioned this to you, and we met at the Michael blanc conference a couple months ago, but that 24 unit, you wrote a book about that. And that yeah, was was absolutely pivotal in me jumping into apartments, I was doing a bunch of single family homes. And I remember I think I paid 99 cents on Amazon. And anyway, that that book just unlocked you know, the the poor part of my mind that thought that multifamily was too difficult. So funny. Oh, thanks. Very, yeah, very publicly just like to thank you for writing that book. Because, you know, I think I accidentally downloaded it, too. You know, it was one of those things were accidental download. I was trying to get a bunch of single family ones and but anyway, it's it's really the book that started my journey. But anyway, thanks for writing it. And thanks, man. What did you do?


Brandon Turner 4:41

What's funny about that is that wasn't meant to be a book. It was a blog post that I wrote ended up being like, 5000 words. And I was like, That's the longest blog post ever wrote. And I was like, Well, what if? And then I learned Amazon had this thing called like Kindle miniatures or something like that. I don't know if they called at the time. And so I was like, let's just put it there and see if anybody buys it. So anyway, yeah, I think like 1000s of people have bought it now. For $1, so yeah, yeah.


Brian Briscoe 5:01

And in my situation I was on a military deployment. And you know, we had access to Wi Fi, like, once a month, if luck is on a Navy ship somewhere in the middle of the ocean, and every time I had Wi Fi, I would just download a ton of ton of real estate books. And at the time, I was trying to increase the amount of single family homes and be able to scale my single family portfolio. Be I when I read that book, it was just like, light went on, but it's cool. Anyway, love there. So when you started bigger pockets, what was your you know, what was your goal with that? You know, did you imagine it was going to be as big as it is now? Yeah, so


Brandon Turner 5:39

a little a little clarification, like I started the podcast, but they actually website it had lived, probably eight years before I even came around. If I was an early like, yeah, I was actually an early member. So BiggerPockets was just a forum, Josh Dorkin started in his basement, we always joke he started in his underwear in his basement, like just by himself, building like a little forum and a little blog, talking about real estate. And I was I found it very early on. I remember like, I mean, you could even literally go back and look at my very first post where I'm like, Hi, I'm brand new, and I want to buy a property. And I found it and what it what it represented to me at the time was like, oh, shoot, there are answers to these questions, like, you know, like, oh, I don't have any money. Okay, I guess I can invest. But it was like, Oh, these are people talking about how to do it. So it was it was this mindset shift of like, oh, it's not can I do it? It's how do I do it? And here's hundreds of people at the time, hundreds today, millions, but hundreds of people who are doing this thing. And so I just started, like jumping into the website and asking questions and answering what I could. And then at some point, I became friends with the guy who had started Josh Dorkin. And we're like, hey, let's start a podcast. And so that's where that came from. So in the beginning, like, Josh just did it because he needed help with his own investments. And when I started the podcast, the reason I did is because I was listening to other podcasts, and I remember thinking, like, I feel so much like, I know the people that I'm listening to, like you like you know them when you listen to their podcast. And I was like, that is so beneficial to a real estate career to have lots of people know who you are, and to trust you. And so we started a podcast about reason and has been exactly that millions people know, like, and trust me, and therefore we can raise money for real estate deals today.


Brian Briscoe 7:14

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a phenomenal podcast. I mean, there's amazing it's the number one podcast in the world for real estate right now. And it's just an amazing podcast. So it's one that I cut my teeth on, you know, I think a lot of people when they start talking, and incidentally this is like gonna be episode number 215 or something like that. Don't quote me on it. But you know, when I've asked people about how they got into the business, I think the two biggest things that come up bigger pockets and you know the Rich Dad Poor Dad book. Yeah, those are the by far the two biggest things that come up. Well, I found this bigger pockets thing. So love to hear it. Yeah, the impact you've had has been been absolutely amazing. So thanks. There you go. So let's talk about some of the deals you guys are doing right now or some of the deals you've done your pick your first pick your favorite tell us tell us a story about one of those huh?


Brandon Turner 8:05

Sure. So why don't I start with I'll start with a slight deviation from the from the multifamily or at least a special niche of the multifamily and that is the mobile home park so I so I bought you know I had these 50 ish units of my own like small multi and then I bought the 50 unit mobile home park now why mobile home parks? I love multifamily and multi mobile home parks our multifamily just kind of an odd, you know, like ugly, ugly cousin of the multifamily space faster, Kid maybe Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, like and somebody asked me actually Michael blog earlier today, I was gonna make a blog and he asked me, why did you choose multifamily? Alright, I'm sorry. Why do you use mobile home parks and I said, like, I chose it because it fired me up. And this is not just a true principle to, I think applies to anybody. Like everything works. If you look at real estate, pretty much everything works. You can go self storage, you go raw land, you can go apartments, single family, whatever. But something's going to appeal to you. Something's gonna make you go I like that. Whenever I hear people talk about it. I like it. So whenever I talk to a new investor, and they want to get into anything real estate related wise, I always tell them listen to like a dozen or two dozen, three dozen, a million episodes of some real estate podcast where they interview people isn't meant to be BiggerPockets be anybody's podcast, and you're going to hear things that stand out to you and that that's like this little flame inside your soul and you're like, Oh, I love that. I love that. You know some people like crypto I don't get crypto but some people love crypto fires them up. Some people love self storage, some people love whatever, for whatever weird reason in the universe. My Fire was for mobile home parks. And so I leaned into it now there are logical reasons why I think they're beneficial, but I need to go through my first one. So I told I told once I decided I was going to go into mobile home parks and this is just another thing. What you decide is more important that you decide is more important than what you decide. So until I made that decision, I just floundered around for years. Finally I made the decision I'm going to do mobile home parks. I don't care There's other things better I'm just gonna make a decision. And then I just find what I wanted. And I said I want a 50 unit property give or take, you know, 50 ish units that has city sewer and water like I don't want to deal with like septic tanks and wells and all that I just want city sewer water, cuz simple. And around 50 units, I figured I could probably afford that. And then I told everybody that I knew I mentioned on the podcast, I go to a real estate club or real estate events. I tell everybody I talked to I want a 50 unit mobile home park was city sewer and water. If you know of any, please let me know. And I did that for three, four months. And finally I was at a real estate meetup. And I met a guy. And I told him that and two weeks later, he emails me and says, Hey, I just got a lead across my desk. It's a 50 unit Exactly. 50 unit, mobile home park with city sewer and water. I thought you'd want to buy it now this thing was 4000 miles away from where I lived. At the time, I guess it was 2000 miles away.


Brian Briscoe 10:53

Now you're in Maui. Right? I'm in Maui now. So


Brandon Turner 10:55

I was in the process of moving to Maui. I was in Washington State. Okay, this property was in Bangor, Maine, like as far away as you can get from Maui in the world, pretty much. And so anyway, this property comes up. And I was like, Yeah, buy it. But I'm not doing it alone. I don't know anything about Bangor, you have a lot of experience. This guy was named Ryan Murdock. He's still one of my best friends in the world actually moved out to Maui lives here with me now on the same property. And Ryan and I bought the property together, we raised money from another another partner who brought about a third of the money I bought a third. Well, they bought, you know, almost half, I bought about a third. And then Ryan brought the rest. And we bought it. We bought it together. We paid 1.1 million for it. We got seller financing on the on the deal. And we ended up selling it two years later for about 1.7. So we Yeah, that was our first deal. And we learned a hard about what I what I don't like and what I do like but the valuable lessons I guess I can pull out was one tell me like with number one, make a decision, know what you're going to go after it doesn't matter. Just make the decision. And then define your criteria, what is it you're looking for. And then third, tell everybody you know that that's what you're going after. So decide, define, and then just broadcast it. And then like now now, even if somebody doesn't bring you the deal, at least you're specific on what you want, you can go tell real estate agents, brokers, whatever, tell them what you want, and then people will go and help you get that they'll help you accomplish that goal. And, and then correct course along the way we did the deal. Some stuff went well, some stuff didn't we had a bank robber, we had a prostitute who was also a thief who would lure men in and then steal money from them. So we had all sorts of fun stories, right? Like yeah, and we we learned what we liked, we learned that we didn't like that class of mobile home parks, it was just too much drama. So now today, we buy nicer ones and and we buy larger ones. We don't buy anything small like that we only buy 100 units or greater. And but I would not have known that had I not take that initial step to buy the first one. And then correct course along the way.


Brian Briscoe 12:47

Yeah, I love that story for a lot of reasons. I mean, I met you. We standing next to Ryan Murdoch, you know, so obviously that that's, that's gone. Well, for you. My understanding you guys are business partners now with Open Door capital, correct? Yeah. So I mean, tell everybody what's going on, it leads to the relationship that you know, you tackle one deal together, and now you're your business partners and, and crushing the multifamily space. So anyway, hey, you know, Thanks for Thanks for sharing that. I very much appreciate it. Yeah. So one question that I asked everybody, I think it's it's core to, you know, being successful. You know, what is your big burning? Why are your motivation for for doing what you do? Yeah. So


Brandon Turner 13:30

you ever remember the movie like, or the TV show? DuckTales or like Scrooge McDuck and all that? Yeah. Like he swam in a vault of gold coins. I just want that. I just want to swim in gold coins. And I don't know why this is so difficult to know. I'll tell you, my my y's have changed a little bit, but they're also kind of the same. In the beginning, I had this like feet like this. This longing in my soul is the best way to say it. That like something was wrong with the world, right? Like going through high school in college. I'm like, this idea of like, work a job for 40 years, your best years of your life, a job you don't like and then an hour commute both ways just to push papers around or to move icons or on a computer computer screen, and to make just enough money to survive, and then retire and die. Like it's almost like there's something wrong with this right? And then I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, I was like, oh, that's what's wrong with it. I didn't put words to this groaning so number one. I wanted I wanted something different. I think most people listen to show have had that experience where they feel that right? Secondly, like I love my parents, I love my dad, my mom. They're amazing people, but I watched my dad work so hard for so long. And as a result, didn't get to spend as much time with our family. Right? He's working 40 5060 hours a week, my entire childhood. And I remember even as a kid saying, There's got to be a better way like or like the father can actually be involved or the you know that the parent that's working can be more involved and I thought in order for me to be the best father possible to my future children and I wanted to be a dad. I needed a different path. And so real estate allowed that. So that was in the beginning. And that continues to today. Like, I do what I do heavily because of the kids. Now today, I have financial freedom, I've got millions of dollars in net worth, and whatever. And so today, it's changed a little bit today, I invest in real estate one, because it's fun. I like it. It's fun, it's good time. I like the fact that there's no top to the mountain, right? There's no like I'm climbing a mountain trying to get more and more, but there is no top to it. So I can be perfectly satisfied in the climb. And I love that the climb is the fun part. So it's fun to be able to challenge yourself and do big things and cool things. I'm perfectly happy where I am. But I also like the climb and it's fun. And then finally, like I love the idea of helping other people cross that bridge from like, there's got to be more than to life in this too. I'm doing what I love. And I'm doing it for a purpose. So I love that like that education side of things.


Brian Briscoe 15:48

Yeah, well, a lot of things there that resonate with me. I mean, I think they're the Rich Dad Poor Dad concept. You talked about the 40 4040 planets is how I've seen it described recently the 40 years 40 hours a week. Yeah, they're the Rich Dad Poor Dad thing. It's something that changed my mindset a lot too is what got me purchasing multi or single family homes. But I think I think there's a lot of lot of goodness there. And in my my Y has definitely morphed over the years as well, you know, 510 years ago, my why was, you know, be able to, you know, provide after the military career was over. Now, it's something a little different, but I very much appreciate you for sharing that. Now, one question that I think you're a special expert at and incidentally button I both share a retirement date from the military of October 31. And we are first time beard owners. Any beard growing tips that you can give us,


Brandon Turner 16:46

man just except Except the homeless look, it's gonna get though, it's just gonna look homeless until it straightens down and then looks a little more presentable. But yeah, I have a theory about beards. I'll tell you. So generally speaking, most studies today show that women find men with beards a little bit more attractive. Now, why is that? Here's why I think so. I think beards show commitment. Right? It shows commitment to something for a long time, but it takes a long time. So your the fact that you guys both gentlemen are good looking guys with beards now shows that you can stick with something hard for a long time. So there you go.


Brian Briscoe 17:21

Look at you. I I was thinking the other day that you know, if you don't like your jawline, as a male, you know, grow a beard and shape your beard, you know, like a weak chin. Grow a beard, you know, I


Brandon Turner 17:33

got the waist. I look like a 13 year old girl without the chin without the Buddha the beard? Yeah, I'm a 13 year old girl. It's great. Well,


Brian Briscoe 17:39

well, we won't tell anybody about. But there we go. So one last question before we bring but on what's next for you?


Brandon Turner 17:48

Yeah, a couple big things. I mean, one, we've gotten heavier into the apartment complex space. So we've, we bought a, let's say, a $71 million. Well, we're close on a $71 million property right now that we syndicated we bought a 57,000,001 a couple of months ago, and then a $34 million portfolio earlier in the year, all like the larger multi. So we want to get more and more into that. I like the multifamily mobile home parks fire me up still, I don't want to get that away. But mobile home parks cap out at about 100 million a year, I don't think we could literally buy more than about 100 million a year, there's just not enough of them for sale at any given point. I think we're about as maxed out as we can get there. And then personally, you know, I've been doing the BiggerPockets Podcast for nine years now. We're going on 10 years. So finally, I'm gonna take a break from podcasting. So I'm actually stepping back from the podcast, we bring in a bunch of new hosts. And so the BiggerPockets Podcast is shifting. And I'm going to just go and focus on Open Door capital for a while and it makes sure that things I mean, it's just going so good. But I want to focus on that I don't want to focus on I got a two year old and a five year old and I'm going to spend some more time surfing and playing with them. So the next year, I'm going to try to take it I don't wanna call it a sabbatical. It might be a little bit too specific, because I don't I'm not going to not work. But I definitely want to take it easy for


Brian Briscoe 19:00

a year. Nice. Nice and two and five great ages. I mean, yeah, it's so fun. Yeah, the two year olds are just the cutest things in the world when they're not crying. Yeah, you know, terrible twos for a reason. But yeah,


Brandon Turner 19:14

yeah, we're, we're weaning them right now. And it's just like, Yeah, it's fun. We have a good night.


Brian Briscoe 19:19

So my oldest is 22. My youngest is six. I've said this for a long time. The sweet spot for kids is about five to 12 You know, we're the kids still like you. Yep. But they're old enough to for the most part take care of themselves. There's no diapers there's you know that they wipe their own butts they get I mean, so yeah, one one rolling into the sweet spot right now.


Brandon Turner 19:43

Yeah, it's it's it's so fun. It's so fun.


Brian Briscoe 19:46

I'm excited for you. Congratulations, man. So well, that said we're gonna shift gears a little bit and bring you know my my good friend bud on the line. So bud. Welcome.


Bud Evans 19:55

Thanks, guys. Yeah, Brandon. This is a this is a True, like dream come true and Wow. Thanks, bud. Yeah, I listen to bigger pockets for ever. That's awesome man. Not forever for the last several years


Brian Briscoe 20:09

for the last nine or 10 years no, yeah, right. But yeah, well, but do us a favor and tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah,


Bud Evans 20:19

absolutely. So I'm a retired police officer and I'm retired active duty military, my timeline goes. active duty Air Force. 1993 became a cop one in the guard. They hit the towers in 2001 2004. I had been deployed twice, I went back on active duty. And I've stayed there since I was enlisted for a total of 19 years, commissioned for 15. Just retired October 31. With congrats, Brian. So over the course of time I did training programs, project management processes, stood up for different units for the military helped with strategic planning and things like that. Also played and coached ice hockey for the majority of my life coach 20 years, yeah, at various levels. So that was great. been married for 31 years, to my wife, she went through the air force with me, she went through the law enforcement world and then came back and stayed with me as I joined the military again. So and we have one son who's 29, and he's a respiratory ICU nurse at Temple University Hospital. So how did I get into real estate? I'll tell you, I, I moved into Cinnaminson, New Jersey. And I kind of wanted to make some changes, I wanted to leave things better than the than the way I found them. So I ran for office, and we came to merrison events in New Jersey, and involved in economic development found that I really loved it. Then I I got a promotion at work, they brought me and made me a major put me in charge of the intelligence section and I wasn't allowed to be in office anymore. So I had to resign. And then I picked up Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and realize that I didn't know anything. Five degrees, finance, master's and bachelor's administration. I had no idea what I was talking about when I was talking about money. And then, you know, I actually picked up your book, how to invest in real estate with low or no money down. And and at that point, I was like, Yeah, I know where I'm going with this. I had an idea which way I wanted to go, but that that really kind of that sent me. So I am an investor, I invest in single family properties. I'm also a licensed agent. Over the last three years, I've done 10 wholesales 30 flips, and I've got 21 properties between New Jersey and Pittsburgh. And I just got picked up. I'm a real estate investment coach for homeschool by Tarek. I'm jumping into the commercial multifamily market right now and just picked up my first six unit. And we're in the process of doing renovations right now. So I'm looking in, obviously Pittsburgh in New Jersey, where I where I live and then trying to look at Carolinas and Georgia.


Brian Briscoe 22:52

Okay, great news gets Kelsey,


Brandon Turner 22:53

you're killing it. And Tarek, he's a good buddy of mine. I love that guy. That's super cool. You're with them.


Brian Briscoe 22:58

Yeah. So but one question for you. What's your big burning lie?


Bud Evans 23:03

You know, I wish I would have told you that it was my wife and son initially, but that has morphed and it became as I got closer and closer to retirement it came became more about time than it was, you know, and how to use it as opposed to you know, just being with them. After I got done work. It turned into how can I generate more time to do more things to have more fun and more experiences with them outside of? You know, dad's in the military.


Brian Briscoe 23:32

Nice, nice. Well, here we come to my favorite part of every podcast episode where I can say something like, Hey, buddy, we got Brandon Turner on the line. What do you want to ask him?


Bud Evans 23:43

Hey, man, I got I got four questions that are like burning in my mind because yeah, so I just I shut down my wholesaling and flipping. went back and tried to restart it and concentrated on my rental properties. But let's start with what's one thing that completely shifted your mindset. We already talked about Rich Dad Poor Dad, but was there another one thing?


Brandon Turner 24:07

Sure, yeah, I'll give you this one. So a few years ago bigger pockets sold the company bigger pockets sold to private equity. They brought it in as part of bigger pockets Josh sold part of a private semi private equity comes in and they install a new board of directors a chairman of the board is this gentleman named Mike and Mike is been around the block for for decades. I mean, business after business after business, one of the smartest business minds I've ever met. So Mike is chairman of the board or and we're sitting down with Mike the first time ever meet him. And at bigger pockets. We're telling Mike all these things that we have, like, we've got three developers and we can do this with it, and this what our plan is, and then we've got this much cash, we're gonna invest in this thing. And we're gonna be, you know, we got this team, so we're gonna do this. And after like, 20 minutes of that of him being, you know, generous to us and letting us ramble. He finally holds up his hand and he says, Guys, stop telling me what you have and what you're going to do with it. Tell him what's possible, and what you need to get there? And I don't know why I had never thought that way my entire life, but it was just like, like mind blown like, like, wait. So we what's possible we could be a billion dollar company we could do like, right? So then I was like, Well, how do I apply this to my real estate? And I was like, this is one of the things that transformed my entire life made opener capital, what it is today I go, like in my entire shift from small deals to big deals. So I'm like, Wait, what is possible? Well, $50 million of real estate in three years, that's possible. What do I need to get there? Well, I would need a full time like acquisitions, you know, somebody to analyze deals and underwriter acquisitions person, I would need a investor relations person, I would probably need an assistant, I probably need like a CFO to kind of run the whole thing, and maybe a finance guy just to help do all the numbers. And I'm like, okay, so if I had that, could I buy $50 million in three years? I think I could. So then I, I took me about four months, I found all those guys and that team. And then now in the last in since that time, that that that three year period from when I set that goal ends December 31 2021. Here from the time of recording this, you know, six weeks away, the goal was $50 million in real estate and 1000 units. By that point, we will cross $300 million of real estate and our 3500 units. So we completely blew that goal away. Because I didn't look at my circumstances and say, What can I do with it? I looked at what was potential what was possible. And then I just backed it up with the right team. And that mindset shift changed everything. For me. It's how I approach every business now is I don't I try not to think, what do I have? And what can I do? It's what's possible and who's gonna get me there.


Bud Evans 26:43

Love it. Love it. Yeah. All right. Then the next question, the follow up there would be what tools do you use to keep yourself on track?


Brandon Turner 26:52

Hmm, good questions. Um, so I so as a team, opener capital, we use a program called Asana. It's for one thing that's such a project management tool. So Asana is what we use to track our goals, we write them down in their track, like our leads coming in and all that. So Asana is kind of our project management tool. We use a system called EOS from the book traction by Gino Wickman. So when I say like a system, it's like, this is the way we operate our business as the operating system. The entrepreneur operating system, Eos, we are we are fanatics. But EOS like we are very rigid and very strict with it. Every quarter, we've got a meeting that aligns up, like our quarterly goals align up with our annual goal, which lines up with our three year goal, which aligns with our 10 year goal. And all that boils down to what we're doing every single week. And we all have goals aligned. And we have a team and we have culture and we have all that stuff. And that's all part of Eos. So EOS is the system we operate under. We use Asana to keep track of everything. And we use a little bit of Google, you know, Google Suite. So like the Google Sheets and all that, and Google, you know, all that and slack for communication. So I don't know if that helps. But that's kind of how we run our life.


Bud Evans 27:59

That's awesome. In fact, I'm using asana and slack right now to communicate Yeah, virtual assistants that I picked up. Yes. Yeah. That's great. Thank you. So I've got a couple. They're kind of tied together. So the first one is, if somebody would drop you off and give you $0 in a certain place, where would you start?


Brandon Turner 28:17

Yeah, I'd probably go and find the person I go talk to. So I'd go talk to real estate agents and find out who's doing all the deals in that area. Right. So I find out who is the big who's the players, right? Then I'd go to those players and ask him what they want, and what are they looking for right now. And then I would go and do everything in my power to find that thing for them. I would like if it was a flipper, let's I want to get into flipping, I go find out who's the biggest flipper around. And then I would just go like, Okay, well, what are you looking for right now you're looking for houses under what price range? Okay, that like that. Okay, I'm gonna go door knock until I find that property for I'm gonna bring it to you. And I'm going to gift wrap it in a boat, I'm going to give it to you asking nothing in return. That's how it start. Because once I do that one time, I'm now in that person's inner circle, and they're going to love me forever. And they're going to help me get more than $0. And they're going to take me to the next level. So that's, that's what I do. Network. Awesome.


Bud Evans 29:05

And so the last thing, the the one thing that kind of hit me when I restarted was, if there's one thing that you did that you could change, what would it be?


Brandon Turner 29:18

Uh, you know, so there's always the whole like, if I change anything, then I wouldn't be who I am today. You know, I wouldn't change anything kind of mentality. But taking that up out of the equation. I could have gone bigger, faster. See, I lived in my comfort zone for way too long. Like I live in this like, I feel good buying duplexes and triplexes I feel good flipping two houses a year. I you know, buy an apartment. That's way too big. That's way too advanced. You have to be way richer and smarter and better for that. And I lived in this belief that I had to stick small for too long. Had I had better self esteem. I could have gotten bigger faster. And I took getting a performance coach like I have a performance coach me with every other week. It took getting into like a group of high achievers. It's called I'm in a group called Go abundance, get get into abundance and having a performance coach, and then hanging around with more people who are doing big deals. Also, I realized big deals weren't any harder than little deals. It was all a mindset thing. And I just had not enough confidence. So that's what I'd probably changes. I tell myself, you can do a lot more than you're you think you're capable of.


Brian Briscoe 30:22

Yeah, I love it. Hey, but you said that was your last question. You got anything else? Because I've got plenty that I can I can throw in right now.


Bud Evans 30:29

Oh, man, I I'm sitting here and talking to Brandon Turner, I could go on. You know, I mean, I just got done listening to three podcasts in a row about creative financing. You guys were putting on? Just fantastic stuff. And honestly, like, I'm trying to wrap my head around it right now, though. The whole pace method. So have you used it? And and if so, you know, what kind of deals were you pulling out of that? Yeah, so


Brandon Turner 30:53

you know, Pace, pace mortgages. A lot of these subject to deals and I've never done subject to I'm about my son said I did it once. I've never been a big subject to Guy until I interviewed pace. And like, I learned what he was doing. I was like, oh, like what it was, was in my head, I have these preconceived notions of like, subject to sounds good, but it's risky. And it doesn't work because of XYZ, like the know the note, or the due on sale clause and all this stuff, right? And then talking to him, like I realized there were answers to all that. And then what what occurred to me was, it's the same thing I just said, it was a mindset thing. I didn't do subject to because I had a mindset that said I couldn't do that where pace was like, No, I'm gonna figure it out. And he figured it out. So I that was I mean, I'm still learning lessons, even today. I mean, that was like two weeks ago, I recorded that episode with him, where I was like, oh, man, I had been wrong all along. That said, I love creative finance. I mean, I love doing No, no money down deals, right. I wrote a book on it. So I mean, I've done a lot of lease options. I do a ton of partnerships and private lending. I love that stuff. hard money lender has been a big thing. And now today's syndication. So I buy $300 million with real estate using almost no money on my own, because I can raise it from other people. So I love creative finance. But yeah, I have not done much of what paste of subject to, though, if I was getting started over again. I definitely look into that.


Brian Briscoe 32:05

Yeah, that was that was one of the things I was considering. I mentioned earlier, you know, reading your book while on deployment, I had two big ideas coming up that deployment, one of them was subject to one of them was multifamily. And, you know, I did a lot of research into both I and I agree, I think for somebody who doesn't have a lot of money if the markets right, and where they live is dynamics worked out the subject to is, is a very powerful tool. Yeah. So now I have a follow up question on that one, you know, as you have evolved from, you know, one, one way of doing things, or one one needs to another? What were the biggest drivers in those changes?


Brandon Turner 32:43

Yeah, almost every massive changes. I call those pivot moments like pivot years or pivot pivot moments. Because like your life pivots a little bit, right. Yeah. So they're usually predicated by a conference, like a real estate conference, or like a mastermind. Almost always, like, when I got into the larger multifamily I went to a, when I chose, like, the, you know, to really go big on that. It was around the exact same time is that whole story I told you about the chairman of BiggerPockets. Earlier, I went to a conference, it was Joe Fairless, his best ever conference, it was in Denver. And I went to that, and everybody there was just doing these massive deals, and I left just inspired to make a big change. And then you know, and that's how much of the abundance event I went for one of their conferences made some big changes. And those big pivot moments tend to occur when you when I get around people doing way bigger things in myself. So that's why I try to continually put myself in conferences and events. That's why I go speak at them, but also just go as an attendee, because when I'm around those people, that's when I change even going to Michael's event, when I met us, like, that changed my business a little bit. Like it shifted the way I thought about things in a lot of ways. And, and that's, uh, yeah, I have never wasted a dime, going to a real estate, like a conference or an event or mastermind, because it's never wasted. It's always an investment.


Brian Briscoe 33:55

You know, I think my first biggest my first big event that I went to was a Michael Blonk conference, it was 2018. So you know, three, yeah, three years ago, I had the same kind of mind blowing mind opening, you know, experience, you know, I was looking at buying a five Plex or an eight Plex. And remember a guy, Air Force, retired Air Force guy put his hand on my shoulder, he's like, you don't need to do this five Plex. He's like, let me show you how to get something big done. You know, it's and it was it was one of those moments where, you know, you meet the right people, and you talk about doing bigger, you listen to them talk about doing bigger deals, and all of a sudden, it's just like, wow, you know what, that doesn't sound so hard. You know, the same same thing that went through my mind when I read that book of yours, you know, wow, 24 units, I can do that. You know, so very much appreciate that.


Brandon Turner 34:46

It it does show that so much mindset I get all is like I had a buddy who flipped he flipped 100 houses his first year. And I'm like, that's insane flips on our house our first year and I asked him that, like, how did you even do that? And he said, well, all my friends were flipping 100 houses a year. So I didn't know that's not the way it was supposed to be done. Like, and I love that, like, he didn't even know that that's not normal. Like, he just he started at that level. And that's just the way we operate, where I started a level where I was just buying single family houses because there's a shoot like, Yeah, our, our reality is shaped by the people we associate with. And it's really hard, especially mentors, like, it's really whoever you look up to, it's really hard to outpace your mentors, like you, you're not going to rise to a mental level or a mindset level higher than your mentor. So, you know, if you surround yourself with people who are doing three flips a year, that's the both the level you're going to cap tap out on. Yeah, but if you want to raise your level in life, get around some different mentors. Yeah,


Brian Briscoe 35:41

absolutely. I love it. You know, I think when I look at, you know, the things that I've done in the past, you know, I started buying single family homes. And at the time, you know, my, my biggest block was, I can only do this once every couple of years, I can't afford to do it more, I can't do more. And it was a huge mind block. And once once you get past that mind hurdle, and you know, once upon a time, I had this idea that if I just knew a little bit more about things, it'd be a lot easier. And I realized what you said that when you meet somebody that unlocks a lot more than, you know, reading a book or listening to a podcast, it's just you meet somebody who's doing it, and boom, you know, life goes on. So yeah, it's so true. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, um, one question, you know, since since we are on a podcast, and you've got the best podcast in the world's best real estate podcast in the world, I think there's one or two that probably have more listeners than you. So probably more than one or two, but yes, thank you. Yeah. Well, one or two that I've heard of that have more than you. So there's only one or two that exist. But tips for growing audiences, you know, what, what did you do starting out differently that you think helped you to get to where, you know, get to the number one ranked podcast in the world? Yeah, I guess?


Brandon Turner 36:57

Yes. That's a good question. A couple of things that I've learned, I guess, about just building a brand in general, just like a platform like that, to have people like know who you are, which makes raising money much, much easier. The first thing is consistency, obviously, like, I mean, we, we we've released an episode every week, every Thursday, for nine years, nine and a half, almost 10 years now, every single Thursday, never missed a date no matter what. And that was a requirement. So the consistency helps. But consistency is only half the picture. The other half is is the improvement. So every episode, even to today, 10 years. And now we look back every time we ended up a sewed, we sit down and we complain about what went wrong, and not in a bad way. We just go okay, next time, let's do this differently. I don't like the way that this happened. And we we we self reflect every single time. And we say how do we do it better? And there's this constant need? How do I get better video, better audio, better questions, better guests better, everything better systems. And this constant striving for that has helped a lot. And then and then people like persons like people like people, right? People like people. And so I make it a point to be personal. And I call it being intentionally authentic. So like, there's one thing being authentic, and then there's making a point to be authentic, which in itself feels kind of in a on an authentic like not authentic, authentic, right? Yeah. Cuz they'll make like, for example, like, over the past month, I gained 15 pounds on vacation one of vacation for a month, I gained 15 pounds, like my shorts don't fit very well anymore. And I feel really stupid, then I'm like gaining all this weight. I mentioned that right now. Because I'm being intentionally authentic. It's not an it's not a it's not a fake thing. I didn't make it up. But I'm being intentional about saying it because people then are like, oh, yeah, I can identify with that. I've been on long vacations and gaining much weight. I understand brands like depression, depression, but like, like getting down on myself over that. Tight pants. Yeah, I can get that. So I'm, I'm being a person. Like, I'm not just standing up here telling me all the all the good things in my life, but I'm letting people relate with me. And I'm talking about my family and what I'm doing on the weekend. So bringing personality into your platform is a good way to get people to really know like, and trust you. I had a guy recently telling me the reason he invested in opener capital is because of how I talk about my wife. And that was such a I I'm not trying to pat myself on the back for like, you know, my talking about my wife, but people like to do business with people they like, and so you have to show them who you are. And then they want to do business with you. Yeah,


Brian Briscoe 39:20

yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, something something about you that really impressed me and you know, not not, you know, all hail Brandon or anything, but


Brandon Turner 39:28

Oh, come on. Keep going. Keep it let's just do it. Let's


Brian Briscoe 39:30

just look at the Michael blanc conference. You know, we were standing in it round in a group. And we probably been sitting there for 1520 minutes just talking conversation had gone and somebody walks by and I remember you saying I have not met that person yet. And you said excuse me, and you walked off to meet that person. I was absent. I was just like, wow, that is impressive. I mean, that the fact that that you went out of your way just to meet somebody that you haven't met before. You know, I thought that was awesome. You know, I think definitely, you know, learned learned a lot just from watching you there. But I think I think you've got the authenticity thing nailed. So


Brandon Turner 40:10

thanks man, I, I've been to a lot of like, back when I was first very first getting into this stuff like the internet marketing stuff, I'd go to like internet marketing conferences, like podcast conferences, and I see these people that I look up to a ton like that I listened to their show or whatever. And I just sit there going, I'm just too scared to go talk to them. And I would never talk to them. And, and I just remember at the time wishing that those people would just come say hi to me, because I was too scared to go talk to them. And like today, now I'm at a conference. I'm like, oh, that's some people probably view me that way. Like, they're just too scared, or nervous. Or maybe this, like, they don't want to bother me or whatever. But I'm like, if I if I can go out there and do it, then it just kind of takes that, and then they're paying 1000s of dollars to attend an event. Like, like, why not make it an amazing event for them as much as possible? So yeah, well, thank you for saying that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I


Brian Briscoe 40:54

noticed and I mean, your your, your beard, you know, is very recognizable. So you know,


Brandon Turner 41:00

the awkward awkward tallness. Yeah, the awkward. Yeah, awkward Dolly.


Brian Briscoe 41:04

We're about out of time. But but do you have any other questions before we close up?


Bud Evans 41:10

Oh, is there a way that you track the people that you meet?


Brandon Turner 41:12

Uh huh. Yeah. Not Not really. I'm, I'm pretty terrible at it. And because of that, I like will meet people and be like, Hey, nice to meet you. And they're like, Oh, actually, we met last year. I'm like, so stupid. Sorry. So yeah, even like the other day, I'm at the airport. And we're all wearing masks, right? Because you have to mask the airport. This guy is like, he's like Brandon Turner. And I was like, I just turned I'm assuming with some random Podcast. I'm like, Hey, nice to meet you. And he's like, Dude, it's Fred. And I'm like, oh, like he's, he's like a friend of mine, that we've known each other for several years. He's a big hard money lender. And I'm like, I just like I had no idea. So anyway, I'm I fall into those all the time.


Brian Briscoe 41:49

Like, yes, yeah. Well, you know, if you if you do the 506 C's, you know, and you have a platform, you don't need to remember people, right? Yeah, not true. Not true, categorically. But I'm


Brandon Turner 42:01

reminded I'm reminded of a great quote from I think it was Mark Twain, right. He said, he said, always tell the truth, because then you don't have to remember anything. And I always love that. Like, you don't remember it, because I just want to tell the truth, then you're fine.


Brian Briscoe 42:15

So which lie? Did I tell that person? You know exactly? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, we are about a time and you know, Brandon, bud. Thank you both for coming on the podcast today. You know, one final question for each of you. Brandon. Go first. how can listeners learn more about you?


Brandon Turner 42:34

Yeah, you can follow me if you want to watch my dancing over on Tik Tok. I'm just gonna head on dance button. Instagram, Tik Tok. I'm Beardy, Brandon.


Brian Briscoe 42:44

No day. Right, bud, same question for you. how can listeners learn more about you?


Bud Evans 42:49

Yeah, I'm on Facebook, Instagram, Howard, Howard, Bud Evans, MBA on LinkedIn if you want to connect that way, too. Alright,


Brian Briscoe 42:57

awesome. And we'll put links to both their profiles in the show notes for anybody who's listening. And, you know, once again, gentlemen, thank you very much. I very much appreciate your time today.