How you can Trust a Potential Partner with Kristine Jefferson and Jenny Gou



Episode 61 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Kristine Jefferson and Jenny Gou. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.


Listen to the episode here




Brian Briscoe 0:00

Jenny, that said, we have Kristine on the line here. What do you want to ask her?


Jenny Gou 0:03

So if everyone's kind of talking the same numbers, what do you do differently to differentiate yourself and stand out?


Kristine Jefferson 0:10

I talk about not what we do differently but what to look for if you're an investor in somebody else's deal, like it's really kind of diving into the sponsor themselves, really are investing in the sponsor, not the numbers. So you have to trust the person underwriting it so then you would not say what we do, but look for this. So they'll naturally gravitate toward Oh, wow, you know, this person is helping me out what to look for. I'm just gonna put up with them because I know that they're, they know what they're doing.


Brian Briscoe 0:50

Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is episode number 61. And part of our Ask the Expert series. Today we're fortunate to have experienced investor Kristine Jefferson and aspiring investor Jenny Gou on the show with us today we talked about how to stand out when there's so many other people doing the same thing you are and also how to raise money for your first deal. And now the show are welcome to the diamond apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe. With Four Oaks Capital. I'm really excited for today's show. It's one of our Ask the Expert episodes. We have two amazing people on the line with us right now we've got a woman with a tonne of experience in this business, Kristine Jefferson, and a motivated and energetic aspiring investor Jenny Gou. So first off, Kristine is co founder of Mission Bay Capital Partners, their owners and operators of over 1400 units with over 100 million in assets under management. She manages a capital raising arm for Mission Bay and is a multifamily investor with over 10 years of experience in real estate investing in syndication shows a bachelor's degree in education from Radford University in Virginia that said, Kristine, welcome to the show. I am Thanks for having me. I appreciate being on. Yeah, thank you so much. And personal thanks, because you were one of the people the very first took time to meet with me. And hopefully you remember you and we met just just next the Pentagon at what was Nando's chicken, right?


Kristine Jefferson 2:31

Oh, good man. last memory. I don't remember the name of the restaurant. But yeah, you and I met for lunch. And you're just like, Oh, right. I look how far you've come in a short time.


Brian Briscoe 2:43

I remember telling you what my goals were, you know, this, this would have been October, actually, almost two years ago to the day, but within a week of the two year anniversary, but I remember you telling you what my goal was and your eyes got really big. You're like, wow. And I thought you're gonna tell me I was crazy. And then you just ended up being so encouraging. And I was just like, Wow, that's awesome. And anyway, I very much appreciate you. You've been an inspiration to me, you and your your partner, Daniel as well. So my personal thanks to you before we start any saying anything else?


Kristine Jefferson 3:17

Well, thanks, Brian, I'm impressed with you two. I mean, look, look what you've done in two years. Which I mean, if you pause and step back and reflect, it's pretty impressive.


Brian Briscoe 3:27

Yeah. And, you know, something that been very important to me is just being able to find good partners. You know, and I know, you'll say the same thing about the partners you have. But you know, I couldn't do this alone. And, you know, I shortly after, you know, we had that lunch, I met my first partner. And we didn't mean to partner up, it took us a while to do it. But that's that's been one of the biggest keys is being able to partner with other great people. So anyway, that said, let's talk about you. Now, let's talk about your background and your history. Tell us who Kristine is.


Kristine Jefferson 3:58

Yeah, and I'm going to end the introduction here with the partnership that we're just talking about, because it's so key. So I started in as a real estate investor after being a stay at home mom for seven years. I know, you'd go back to work and I wanted to be my own boss and be an entrepreneur. And I started diving into single family fixin flips. So I did that for a long time. I did it primarily through private funding, so I would raise the capital by and fix the flip. They rarely I think I only had two bank loans on all the flips I did there primarily through private funding. Right. After doing that, and this was by myself. I did, I did it all by myself. I live in Northern Virginia, primarily where I did the fix and flip was Baltimore which was like 75 miles north of me, and I would just go up a couple times a week and check on everything. But I was it was just me. It was like me my business that was managing everything. And after my last one that I did, which was Tear down rebuild, which was a huge project took like five times as long as I projected and so many things went wrong. And after that, like I was like, if it's such a big project, why am I not in multifamily? Yeah, and I'm spending a lot of money on one door and I mean, like over a million dollars a lot of money. Wow, we're versus that on doors. My most my family I like that. That's it. I always thought about multifamily, but I always thought it was out of my reach. It's just so big. I'm like, I don't think I you know, it's just seem so far above my head of what I can achieve and accomplish. During that last one. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna do multifamily. And at the same time learning about it and getting educated about it. Like, it's not something I want to do by myself. So I did this fixin flip by myself. I'm like, I want a team. And I've come to realise, like you said, Brian, multifamily is a huge team sport, like, there's no way around. Oh, yes, there is, if you're going on a smaller scale, if you're buying 246 10 unit. I mean, he probably even 20 although that I get challenging at that point. But so you can do it on a smaller scale. But if you're looking to scale up like, like I was, I'm like, I definitely want to do this in a partner, whether it was by a deal, or business partner,


Brian Briscoe 6:21

overall. Yeah, I totally agree. So somewhere between 2010 and 20 units is the threshold, in my opinion, I don't know exactly where it is. But once you get to a certain size, you have to have a partner.


Kristine Jefferson 6:33

Yeah, you have to have a partner, you have to have, I mean, even to get the loan out to you have to have some sort of experience. But then you have to bring in a partner, you have to have a balance sheet. And then you have to bring in someone, you know, showing liquid assets.


Brian Briscoe 6:48

Yeah, and most people starting out, don't have a balance sheet that you need to be able to get the loan, they don't have the liquidity you need to get the loan, and they don't have the experience, you need to get the loan. So for anybody starting out, partnering is a necessity.


Kristine Jefferson 7:02

It's an absolute necessity. It is and to parlay with that also like finding someone like work to your strengths, versus your weaknesses work to what you do best and find the partner to complement what you don't like, especially when you're partnering with multifamily. So I have an amazing business partner who I'm very blessed and grateful to be partnered with Daniel Woodford, and we're Mission Bay Capital Partners. He is a master at underwriting and spreadsheets and numbers. And and he's also a master at lending and loans and the terms and, and I'm not and I never will be is just not my, my interest or my thing. It's a little painful to me to go through the whole process of underwriting. I understand it. I get the gist of it. But that's really not my area of expertise. It's his Yeah, we have two people the same thing. We're fantastic and underwriters, well, who's going to do the rest of the rest of the stuff? Because there's much more to multifamily investing than underwriting deals?


Brian Briscoe 8:10

No. And just just to caveat on that. I've seen both of you together at local meetups and at the larger national meetups. And Daniel is usually in the corner, you know, he wicked, smart, great guy. And you know, you're you can't I mean, I remember this was a Michael Blanc event two years ago, I remember seeing you and wanting to talk to you. But every time I looked over, I mean, it was just another group of people, you're always talking to people always talking just more and more people. So I mean, personality wise, you guys complement each other very well. You know, you're extremely outgoing. He's very analytical. And you bring the two of you together. And it's a great team.


Kristine Jefferson 8:52

Yeah, yeah. And it making making a team that find it finding that partnership, and just just going with it, and then that, then you're able to get more like, like you you're doing right now you're able to grow and scale finding partners, and it doesn't necessarily like by and I have to be a business partnership. You can do it per deal. Yeah, deal by deal too. I'm not sure Brian, if you did it the first deal before.


Brian Briscoe 9:20

So the first deal we did, it was not as for x capital, it's the same for people. We did the first deal and we realised that we liked each other, we realised that we worked out well, we realised that we complemented each other. And it was before we close on our first deal that we decided to form the company so and yeah, you're you're right. You don't have to have the company behind you. You know, I think to get started a lot of people just need to find you know, one or two people that they can do business with. And keep in mind it's you know, five to eight year holds or three to five year holds, but it's going to be a longer term relationship, but it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be like a full time business partner for They're on out. Exactly.


Kristine Jefferson 10:03

That's exactly how I started to Daniel and I were not business partners when I first started, but I met him meetup. And at the time, they were only single family houses, housing meetups, like there was an apartment or multifamily meetups at the time when we met. And we were the only like two multifamily people in the room. So we, we sat down, and we happen to sit next to each other as well. And I'm like, oh, okay, I got to know you. I got to get to know you meet you, because I don't know, many multifamily people. And so Mike taking lunch, ask him all sorts of questions like, well, I'm currently under contract on a deal in Texas, would you be interested in coming on the due diligence trip and participating and raising capital? And I'm like, Yes, yes, I'll come and raise it. And I hadn't raised capital at all for multifamily. But I'm like, Hey, I did for single family. Like I raised a lot of money. Because all I mean, like all of my acquisitions are through private funding, right? Like, okay, and now I can do it through single families. I've got to be able to do it through multiphonics. I got to get in, I got to break into this market. I get something under my belt. So I'm like I'm in. I'm in. I'm a way to raise money. I'm going to find a way to pay to go to Texas. And and then we have since partnered up.


Brian Briscoe 11:26

Yeah. Now, did you find raising money for multifamily to be substantially different than raising money for single family?


Kristine Jefferson 11:36

Yes. A lot. A lot. A lot, a lot. Nobody that I raised money for for single family? No, I take that there's one person, only one person that I raise monies for single families invested in multifamily. That's it Well, yeah. It's a it's just a different process. It's a longer educational process. It's a whole different. The fix and flip was short term. Yeah. And multifamily. It's long money. You know, it's five to seven years where the flips were six to 12 months. And there again, capital and interest. So it's a whole different ballgame. And I guess, a different set of investors. Yeah, you know,


Brian Briscoe 12:21

I've heard a lot of people, a lot of people say the same thing. You know, I guess you're the investment goals of a multifamily investor are probably different than the investment goals of a single family fix and flip investor, the return of capital comes a lot quicker. The return on capital also comes a lot quicker, you know, I think multifamily, you have a little trickle of cash flow until you sell, you know, maybe 6%, you know, or six to 8%, maybe year over year, but you don't get the return the big return of capital and return on capital until, you know, several years later when you sell it. So,


Kristine Jefferson 12:56

exactly. And there's a lot a lot more components as well, like, for the most part and I mean, when I say people, I mean, people that raise money for the for the single family homes, like they understand residential flip, if you watch HGTV at all, or I've heard of it, never heard of any of those shows. You understand? Yeah. Okay, I invest in this anything that I get it back when you start approaching multifamily. Even saying the word multifamily he's like we need multifamily. So then I apartments apartments, yes. And then they're like, oh, no like, like 100 units, like large apartment complexes, I even might have to point out like in our local area as though the understand is the complex and not like a condo.


Brian Briscoe 13:44

Yeah. You know, and it's interesting that the word multifamily The name of this podcast initially was Diary of a multifamily investor. And that's what it was supposed to be. And we started thinking, and we're like, we want more people to be able to look at this, and hey, I'm interested in that, you know, and so we changed it to apartment just for that reason. You know, just because most people don't understand what a multifamily asset is. So, yeah, I think there's something in the wording as well. And you said something that I thought was key, and I had the same struggle early on. You said you also did single family houses because you didn't think you could do multifamily? And I think that that's the exact mindset I had when I did my first single family was I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and like, he talks about commercial real estate, he talks about apartments and like, I can't do that. And I did what everybody understands that single family.


Kristine Jefferson 14:37

Exactly. Yeah, same thing here. Like, oh, let's go out of my reach. Yeah, not Whatever. I'm not smart enough. I'm not educated enough or I can't do that by myself or for big time investors or, yeah, yeah.


Brian Briscoe 14:54

I remember thinking I don't even know where to begin, you know, and that's, that's that's the thought that came through my head. You know, if I knew where to even start, I think I may have tried it, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, but I remember thinking, I don't even know where to begin. But yeah, so anyway, one question that I'd like to ask everybody, Christine, what's what's your big burning? Why what's what's your motivation that keeps you doing this?


Kristine Jefferson 15:20

That's, that's a great question. I think everybody needs a why everyone, everyone needs something bigger than themselves. Because if it's just for you, you're going to stop, you're going to get bored, you're going to change if you're doing it for somebody else driven to get it done. So for me and my wife changes throughout the time, like my why when I started single family was I want to still be a stay at home mom and work around my kids schedule and be there for them and be able to set my own hours and and all that was my why, in starting real estate as a as an investment as an asset class. My wife, her Thai family, was residential is too speculative. I'm like, it's too risky. I need something more stable. There, I can't I couldn't handle the ups and downs, the stress the huge stress that I had with residential where I don't have with multifamily. Do Don't get me wrong when we're doing big raise. I'm like, it's like is this full force ahead. But my Why is it's the financial freedom. If my kids not having a college bill, when they graduate college, I paid for my daughter's in college now, but we want to pay, we want to support them in school not to graduate with a huge student loan debt or any debt at all. Yeah. And then I want to do the same for like, support my mom, because she supported me for so long in my residential, and so just supporting me in it, and I want to be able to give back to her that that's a huge thing for me that I'm able to take care of her. When she's full volunteer retirement, and it's through, you know, I just so it's taking care of my mom. And then also and then beyond that, like, well, what's next? Well, you know, I want to also years years down the road, I have grandchildren, to be able to pay for their education, and not have my so there's like, there's always something that's driving me to the next thing.


Brian Briscoe 17:24

And I mean, I think that's the same progression A lot of people have, you know, the first thing they try to do is free up some time. You know, once they have the time freed up, you know, I think most people are driven to start giving back in one way or the other. And the next step is, is legacy. And, you know, almost everybody who comes on the show, usually the starting point is I want to buy back my time, you know, I want to spend time with my family and the people that I that I love most, but there seems to be that same progression with with everybody. Maybe I'd write a book on that one. Yeah. That'd be nice. So I'll use I'll use all of these interviews where I asked the question, what's your big burning? Why? And you know, just just go from there. So let's see, this is this is gonna be like episode number 60. Something. So, you know, I've already got plenty of research done. But let's do this real quick. Let's talk about, you know, one or more of the deals you guys have done, and just give the listeners an idea of what Mission Bay does.


Kristine Jefferson 18:22

Sure. Great. I'll just talk about our latest deals, since it's precious, in my mind, close that and the end of March is, I would say it's a cookie cutter. We've done deals before that aren't quite as cookie cutter like student housing or so this was a straight up cookie cutter Mission Bay Capital Partners deal where we bought 146 unit in Columbia, South Carolina. And is this value add, again, fit a fitting the mould, what we're looking for was over 100 units value and it's a property that our property management company who is amazing, and we wouldn't have bought this property if they couldn't take it on. So that was huge. So that check that box, the location, the area, the cap x and needed are the capital repairs, the capital repair, budget, everything that needs to be done, check checked all of our boxes. So this one purchase price, I think $9.6 million, the capital raise on that one, almost 4 million. Okay. And we have a 2.7 million capital budget on that. So we closed just like you Brian, we I mean COVID. Yes, right. So, cuz this is COVID. Yeah, you were under Li. So we were just closed on like, the banks were starting to shut down. They were doing, like, all their loans were disappearing. I'm like, oh my god. So the bank kept coming up to us and we're like, okay, we're a week out or a week out. You got to close. And then the bank's like, Okay, well, you need to have 12 months in reserves. Interest reserve for the loan was like $100,000 however, we did and this is important to us. Especially for new investors is we have a huge buffer on reserves, and we build it into our numbers and investor returns. So we, we weren't going into this race and the numbers and anything with that amount to have in reserves in a bill just transferring to the, you know, the bank holding it. So we had it all in the plan. Anyway, we were just like, okay, and we needed we like to have a little bit of cushion reserves ourselves. But yeah, so it was like to down to the lat down to the last wire, like, Oh, my gosh, we then we close, like, okay, now you can read, you know, it got close during COVID. It was March 27, or 28, that last Friday of March.


Brian Briscoe 20:45

So, yeah, we talked about this before we started recording, we talked about the one that we're closing on soon. But we also had an LSI on 156 units in Colombia signed the first week of March. And we were about a day away from signing the contract on that one. And it was it was about two miles from the one you guys did, you know, but that's one that, you know, once the bank shut down, you know, it was just it was it was clear immediately that we weren't going to be able to get the financing that we wanted, you know, and that was one where you know, the seller, just I don't want to wait. So to otherwise sign one seller said, I don't want this to be tied up. So we're not going to contract and the other seller was was patient with us? And said, Yeah, sure. You know, we can pause for a little bit. Let's see where the where the dust settles and go from there. So good. Yes. So what's next for you?


Kristine Jefferson 21:37

So what's next for us is I mean, right now we're focused on on our business, we're focused on working on our business, not in the business. So working on growth and expansion and scaling up and get in are like foundation set. So we can start acquiring more properties on a systematic basis. We're focused on marketing and raising capital, just getting our systems and processes and procedures in line. Everything, all of the wheels are turning properly. So we're focused more on growth versus like the little nitty gritty details.


Brian Briscoe 22:13

Yeah. So so you're taking a little bit of an operational pause just to get ready working operations. Yeah, just just to smooth things out and get ready to scale again later. Exactly. Nice. Well, let's, let's introduce our next guest, we have Jenny gu who has been waiting patiently on the line. So Jenny is a full time real estate professional focusing on multifamily assets. She has been investing in single family homes since 2018. And in this last year, she shifted gears to multifamily after reading more books, networking with experienced investors, in February 2020, she retired from a corporate career after 13 years at Procter and Gamble, and today, she's dedicated to finding and closing her first multifamily deal and managing a few multifamily assets with her partners. So that said, Jenny, welcome to the show.


Jenny Gou 22:59

Thanks, Brian. So good to be here. Learn from experts like you and Christine. Yeah.


Brian Briscoe 23:05

So So one question from your bio, you have retired in quotes, you know, why? Why do you have, you know, Jenny, quote, retired, unquote, for her career, what's what's that mean?


Jenny Gou 23:16

You know, when, you know, when, traditionally, when we think of the word retire, folks are, I would say, you know, in their 60s or so, and then they're riding into the sunset sitting on a beach somewhere. And that's not what I picture in retirement. So the reason it's in quotes is, you know, I may have retired from my corporate job, Jeff, right after 13 years there, but I'm, I'm still off doing crazy things and and trying to learn as much as I can to keep going, I think I'd be one of those folks, that would be really bored if I was truly retired, you know, sitting on a beach every day. So that's kind of know why they're in quotes.


Brian Briscoe 23:55

Yeah. And I, I mean, I understand that I'm going to retire from the Marine Corps and about 278 days, but you know, I'm not going to be sitting on the beach. You know, there's other things that I'm obviously passionate about multifamily apartment investing and helping other people. So I, I will be doing basically the same thing I'm doing right now full time in about 270 something days. So yeah, about about, you know, well, it really, it really depends on how much leave I take between now and then, you know, so I know what my official retirement date is. But then they take all the leaves that you have, and they they back count from that. And then your last day on active duty, you know, so I'm using August 5 as my my last day for that, but it may be August 1, it may be August 10. So about anyway, that said, Jenny, why don't you give us a little bit about your background and your history. And tell us what got you into apartment investing?


Jenny Gou 24:51

Yeah, so so my husband I Ronnie and I both worked for p&g myself for 13 years prior to retiring and he's works there today, selling toilet paper of all things. But really, you know, we were so invested both of us in the company, we really wanted to diversify our portfolio we, you know, did the whole thing, right? you store your money in 401 K's you put money in your IRAs, and, you know, you pray and hope that it does well. And we really thought, you know, since we're both so vested into this company, we wanted to spread our our wealth and our creation into other assets. So, you know, growing up, my family actually had some single family homes in the Arizona market. So I always had a little bit of that background. And so we started investing. We lived in Ohio for five years prior to moving back to LA. And we just bought our first single family rental. Figured, wow, this is actually not that hard. And then nine rentals later, we were like, wow, this is we got to start scaling up. And so over the last year, call it 18 months or so, you know, I started reading, we listened to all the big podcasts, right? So blunck, and fairless, all those big names. And we really started to realise, okay, gosh, we can actually do this. It's not as scary as what we think it could be. So we've dived into multifamily. And I kind of did the reverse, right, I actually retired first, before even purchasing a single multifamily property, because we believed in it so much. And we were fortunate enough to have, you know, one of us be able to leave our w two job and pursue full time. And so fast forward to, you know, that was the beginning of this year, pre COVID. Fast forward to now closer to the end of the year. And, you know, I'm really excited. I'm out to close on my first syndication deal as a sponsor on the Kp on another. And ultimately, I'm going to go from zero to over 800 units by 12 months. So that's really exciting. Wow,


Brian Briscoe 26:53

that's, that's amazing. So a couple of points that I made right there. Nine rentals. I mean, that's not shabby at all. Where were those rentals? I mean, you're in Orange County. I think a lot of people kind of shy away from that area. Where are the rentals?


Jenny Gou 27:08

Yeah, so they're actually they're 10. They're all in Cincinnati, Ohio. So we moved back to LA about a year ago. And prior to that, we lived in Ohio for five years.


Brian Briscoe 27:17

So So you had 10 rentals and your husband's working. So you have a little bit you still have stability, it wasn't so much of a leap of faith you you have a little bit of stability have a nine rentals, presumably cash flow coming in your husband's salary. So you retired from p&g, you've got a little bit of stability. But now you've got time to do this full time, right? Yeah, yeah, perfect. Perfect. I think that's smart. You know, I've heard some people who some people do this successfully, who just quit burn the ships and see what happens to me. That's a little scary. That's, that's outside of my comfort zone personally. But now you say you have one deal that you're gonna be closing on soon. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.


Jenny Gou 27:56

So I have three other partners. They're all mentors of mine. So I think that's super important. As you're learning this industry. We have a deal in Arizona. At first, you know, we were thought we were thinking we would just do it as a JV. Right, the four of us together, we could take it down that way. But then the more we did the numbers and how great of an asset it is, we thought you know, we have so many friends and family who would love to participate who know nothing about multifamily investing, why don't we make it a smaller syndication and give them the opportunity to learn with us and syndicate and I'm, you know, the more newbie of the group, and those other three folks are more experienced. So together, we're able to make it all work. So we're raising money, and I, you know, we're raising a little under a million, so it's not a terribly large raise, but we were able to get soft commits in less than 48 hours. So we max out already, which is really fun to do.


Brian Briscoe 28:54

Awesome. Awesome. And when do you plan on closing on that one?


Jenny Gou 28:57

Hopefully, by mid December, so everything's kind of


Brian Briscoe 29:01

on track. Alright, well, congratulations on that, you know, hope everything works out in your your guys's benefits. So the question that I always ask everybody, what is your big burning? Why?


Jenny Gou 29:11

Yeah. So to add to your book, your future book, you know, very similar to Brian and you to Christine. You know, really, it's family, Ray. So we have two small kids, one's four and a half and one's seven. They're both sitting outside in their Halloween costumes right now. You know, we lived far away from ever since we had kids. We lived in the Midwest and our families are both in California and Arizona. We just wanted them to be closer to their grandparents. We wanted them to have their cousins around and we didn't quite have that much flexibility in terms of moving back to the west coast to be close to family. So we wanted one the financial freedom to have more flexibility with our time majority of the reason why I left my corporate job so having the real estate professional background gave me that experience and the flexibility to have my own schedule to be able to leave a meeting and go to a PTA PTA conference or you know, what have you for the kids. So we we made the decision to place our family first moved to the west coast, me leaving my job. And now we have the best of both worlds. So the legacy piece is absolutely true. The family pieces 100% true. And really the generational, you know, well for your kids and your grandkids. But then one other layer for us is we want to turn around and reach behind us to pull folks with us. So, you know, a lot of the time I talk to experts like you guys, the number one thing they always say is, well, you know, we wish we could have started this sooner. Or I wish I knew this, you know, 510 years ago. And so we're trying to get rid of that for our friends and family and get them in with us quickly.


Brian Briscoe 30:54

Yeah, I love that. I love that. But that's amazing. Jenny that said, we have Christine on the line here. What do you want to ask her?


Jenny Gou 31:00

Yeah, Christine, I love your background. And it's so clear, you're passionate about all this work, which is exciting. I do have a couple of questions for you. You know, we're starting out in this whole syndication gig, right? And you have such, so much more experience, what would be five, three to five tips you would give somebody newer to syndicating and raising capital like how do you find new investors to add in so many of the upcoming deals?


Kristine Jefferson 31:27

And that's a great question. in upcoming deals, it kind of starts like now, like deals that you don't have yet. So the sooner you get started in letting everyone know like building a data or building a CRM, you know, your database of people. That's the key. Like that's the most important thing is meeting people, it's a little trickier now that we can't meet people in person as much as in meetups. But for So for us, we started marketing and we're not doing it right now we've paused it. And we didn't continue on with a company we had before. But marketing or posting a lot on LinkedIn, connecting with people on LinkedIn, letting them know what you're doing and starting relationships today that will cultivate massage and letting people let you know shouting to get used to it sounds like you have a lot of friends and family, letting all them know. And approaching it with a mindset that you're helping people out. If you're putting their money to work for them, they're putting their money to work for them. Like this is like you just want to shout it to the world like this is the great investment. This is a great way and a safer route, then, then the ups and downs of the stock market approach you with a mindset that you're helping people with their with their money, then asking for money. So there's two different sides. So just announcing it stay in touch constantly emailing people, even getting on some sort of marketing campaigns. So you're meeting people and then at the same time, and then they don't hear from you until you have something. So there has to be some sort of connection to keep them warm in the meantime as well. Which is why I say it's difficult, as Brian and I were talking about earlier to scale or do this business solo. If you're you sound you're doing this with other partners. I mean, some are great at finding the deals and others are great at finding the money or attracting people to invest in your properties. Because doing it all you spread yourself so thin, is that vertical in one category or the other. So for me like my vertical categories, more of this part of it the syndication side, where Daniel Woodford my partner's category is vertical on finding the deals and the lending and the analysing. If you can focus more on on that for future deals award announced to everybody like ways like, what's your I mean, this is what I this is what I've done to like, what's the stock market done for you? Right? Because this is all usually the answers are even over the last like did you know over the last I think it's five years the stock market average 6% a no I'm sorry, the 10 years over the last 10 years is you know the stock market five or 6% I'm like here's another option that you can put your money in or diversify so a lot of education as well as people to not necessarily like you but to trust you got it.


Brian Briscoe 34:36

Yeah, I agree. Always, always be raising always look for new people and that's that's been absolutely key to us. Even if you don't have a deal. And keep those build those relationships. That's really what people will invest with you is on the relationship.


Jenny Gou 34:50

Yeah, I liked how you reframe that sentence about, you know, not asking for money but telling people how do we help them with their money. I love that is that Like, what other ways? do you differentiate your deals when you have these, you know, available because as I look across the marketplace, everyone's numbers are pretty similar. You know, it's eight to 9%, cash on cash 70 to 80%, total return. So if everyone's kind of talking the same numbers, what do you do differently to differentiate yourself and stand out?


Kristine Jefferson 35:25

I talk about not what we do differently. But what to look for, if you're an investor in somebody else's deal, like the things to look for. And as sponsors do, that's great. They can say 10% cash on cash, what are their numbers are, they're bumping their rents on 100% of the units in one year in their underwriting, like it's really kind of diving into the sponsor themselves, really are investing in the sponsor, not the numbers. So you have to trust the person underwriting it. So then you would not say what we do. But look for this. When before you invest in a deal, how much cash reserves is this sponsor have? So they'll naturally gravitate toward a wow, do you know this person is helping me out what to look for? I'm just going to put him with them. Because I know that they're, they know what they're doing in their underwriting. But yeah, make sure that not expenses aren't cut too much. I mean, some people like Oh, I know, I can go to excel. And then guess what your insurance bill like almost doubles your to like that, in the projection of the numbers, is that gonna, like change everything? Is that gonna blow up a performer? So just like pointing out to people, which is why it's kind of like an educational process to have what an investor should look for in a sponsor. And what the sponsor does,


Brian Briscoe 36:45

I actually got an email from one of our investors a couple of days ago, will be closing on a place on Monday. And he emailed me and he said, I've seen several different pitch decks from other operators to have higher numbers. But I'm going with you because I like you. And I trust you that that was up on that one chat, you know. And one more thing that I'll add on to what Christine said is, we're fairly new to this game, you know, we're we've been in it just about a year and a half. And a lot of people, when they look at our experience, I think something that you know, Christina and Daniel have is a long track record, you know, which a lot of people come to us and say, Hey, I like you guys. But I want to invest with somebody with more experience. I've done several introductions to Daniel and Christine on people like that. So that's one more thing that they have is is straight out experience.


Jenny Gou 37:36

Makes sense? You know, I have a question around mentorship, right? I, I say I like to, I like to think of it I literally got my master's in real estate investing this year, just on the job. It's been quite amazing. I'm so thankful for my mentors. You know, who who would you consider your mentor? Or who would you go to for, you know, advice as you're, you're still in this industry today.


Kristine Jefferson 38:02

I mean, I consider my my business partner, Daniel, my mentor, before I met him, I did do a mentorship programme with Michael blog. I think I did in 2017. I got to look back as to when that was I did a year long mentorship programme. So besides reading all the books there at the time, there were no podcasts to have multifamily investing, like, like there is now. So when I started, I did a mentorship with Michael because I knew Michael, not from his podcast, but from single family investing days. So I so I knew him, I trusted him as a mentor. So I think mentorship and education are huge components and getting them multifamily. I think you do need some sort of direction guidance or business partner like you're doing in your Arizona deal where you have more experienced people that you're partnering. So I think it is it is a arena where you need to partner with more experienced people, or you do need a mentor. Right. And for me, it was the one on one coaching for a year.


Jenny Gou 39:07

Yeah, I love the fact that one you're a female in this industry, because I've as I've learned over the last, you know, year or so, there's not a lot of finger heads or business partners that are on the female end. So it's really refreshing to start to see more of that pick up and learn from so kudos to you. And thank you really.


Brian Briscoe 39:31

So So one thing I'll note, I recently bought the book, the only woman in the room and I interviewed the author and the person who who brought a bunch of stories together about a week ago. And the very first big multifamily conference, I went to a member of the social hour, and Christine was literally the only woman in the room. I mean, and I don't know what that feels like for you but you weren't the only woman in the room. There were a lot of a lot of women And when you talk to them said, Well, I'm here with my husband, he kind of dragged me here. But you have been for for many years, the only woman in the room and in a lot of these, get a lot of these events, a lot of these these conferences, and at times you only woman on the stage. You know, I think there was there was one, one conference I went to and same thing, you know, a bunch of men on the lineup. And then there there's Christine right in the middle of them. So anyway, I doesn't go unnoticed. And, you know, incidentally, I'm trying to try to help that out a little bit by bringing more and more wonderful women on the podcast. So well, that said, we are quickly running out of time. And I just want to thank both of you guys for coming on the show. I appreciate the time you guys spent with us today. So and then one more question for each of you, Christine, you're going first? How can people get to know more about Christine Jefferson?


Kristine Jefferson 40:46

Oh, sure, they can always contact us on our website, which is Mission Bay, CP, as in Capital Partners, submission based si p.com. And they can click the Contact us now form. And I was talking earlier about getting to know who you're investing with. So I can send you an article we have on top 11 questions, ask your sponsor before investing. I'm just putting your contact info on the Contact Us form and note that in the message, and I'll get that over to you. Or if you just want to reach out, that's the best way to do it. Because those do come to me.


Brian Briscoe 41:23

All right. And we'll make sure that information gets in the show notes. So if you're listening, and you're interested in what she's she's offering at the show notes, and scroll down to the link, and we'll have it in there. Thanks, Jenny, same question for you. how can listeners learn more about you? Sure. So


Jenny Gou 41:39

I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn. If you want to reach out to me directly. My email is Jenny at triangle dash estates calm,


Brian Briscoe 41:49

okay. And same thing, we'll have that in the show notes as well. So anybody who wants to contact you, they've got the way to do it. So that's, that's it for today's show. You know, once again, thank you so so much to the two of you for coming on the show. I had a great time with you and look forward to getting to know you guys even better later on. Great. Thank you. Thanks. I'm excited for you, Jenny. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Brian.


Thank you for listening to the diode apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcasts or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.


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