First Deal Episode with Sterling Chapman and Andrew Brough

Episode 122 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Sterling Chapman and Andrew Brough, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

What advice would you give an aspiring investor that's six to 12 months behind where you are right now?

Andrew Brough 0:05

I'd say just keep trying no phone call after phone call. Eventually, you'll he'll be able to get get where you want to be.

Sterling Chapman 0:12

Yeah, I would have to echo what Andrew saying. I think you know, tenacity and just not giving up is really the only difference between people that give up and people that don't give up. It's a process. So you're not going to go you know, buy a $5 million apartment complex two weeks after you decide you want to go buy a $5 million apartment complex for what we're trying to do in this business. It's a process.

Brian Briscoe 0:42

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian brisco. In this podcast, we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is journal entry number 122. And part of our first deal series. Today we speak to Sterling Chapman and Andrew Brown, who are going to tell us about how they close on a 53 unit property in Atlanta, Georgia, in February for $4.2 million. And now this show, welcome to the direct apartment investor podcast. I'm your host, Brian Bristow with aurochs capital, once again, very excited for today's show. It's a first deal series episodes with two guys that I've known for quite a while now. We have Andrew broth and Sterling Chapman on the line with us. They both recently closed on a 53 unit apartment complex in Atlanta, Georgia in February of 2021, valued at $4.2 million. So that said, certainly, Andrew, welcome to the show. Thank you, Brian. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So yeah, we've known each other for quite a while. I think Andrew, I've met you first probably probably almost three years now is what I'm thinking. But thank you. We're the first people that I came across in the Michael Blanc community. So excited to see this happen. And congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, very exciting. Yeah. And incidentally, for everybody listening, Andrew and my wife went to the same high school a couple years apart. So there there's, you know, little connection there as well. But so let's start about the start talking about your guys's background. And you know, since since we're just talking about Andrew going to high school and your Why don't you go first, tell us a little bit about your background. And what led you to this apartment investing career?

Andrew Brough 2:40

Okay, yeah, so I'm from Utah. I've been in the commercial lending banking industry for a long time. I've been in banking for 22 years commercial lending for 16. I guess what got me into this is I lend to commercial developers high net worth real estate investors. And, you know, I saw that the financial strength they had, and I thought, well, you know, this is something I want to try. started the journey, I was able to, I got into a couple of education programmes microblogs, such as one of those, and just started the journey there. So just, you know, transitioning, trying to give myself options down the road. You know, I've

Brian Briscoe 3:26

met a lot of people who have similar stories where they were on the other side, they're on some sort of servicing part of people who are doing large real estate transactions. And it seems like a lot of have a similar story where it's like, the light bulb goes on, and they're like, I'd rather be on that side of the fence.

Sterling Chapman 3:44

You hear that with accountants a lot. CPAs they're like, Oh, my richest clients have real estate, so I decided to get into it.

Brian Briscoe 3:51

Yeah, you know, it happens so frequently, and it's just something that attracts people. You know, one of the larger guys in the in the Texas market, same thing. He was a commercial lender. And he says all the time, like, I wish I was figured out I was on the wrong side of the fence. So, you know, started doing that. But yeah, so So you saw all these high net worth people come in and you're like, I've got to get me some of that real estate. Basically how that came down. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry. How about you what, what Tell us about your background and what you what got you interested in into real estate?

Sterling Chapman 4:26

Yeah, so I guess my my going far back my backgrounds in finance, I went to LSU for finance and got into insurance and investments right out of school and did that for a few years, small investments, series six, you know, variable annuities, setting up Roth IRAs and stuff like that. And then I transition into the telecom industry where I went into corporate america and and really kind of like took off and was promoted several times very quickly. At the time I wanted to I wanted to be the the CEO of my company one day, you know, just dedicated to corporate america really excited about where I was going, and then I went, went back and got my MBA and took some entrepreneurship classes. And that kind of really, like started making me want to kind of create a separate life outside of serving corporate America. And a few things all happen at once. As I was finishing up my MBA, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and my boss, who had been with my company for 17 years and done great for all those years, was all of a sudden found himself out of a job in his mid 40s. Because they just, they did this periodical restructure where they surplus and late lay people off. And I was about to get married and buy my first house. And I just had this like horrible vision in my head of like having a mortgage and two car notes and three kids in private school in my 40s. And like, the edges turning the faucet off. Yeah, and the lack of control terrified me. And so I realised that associated so much of my identity with serving the corporate American master that I just, I didn't even know what I would do in a situation like that. So I kind of started to entertain something. Like I said, I was finishing up my MBA and really getting an entrepreneurship. And then when I read rich, where I said, Okay, real estate investing is a way to financial freedom. So I started buying single family houses, and then I quickly ran out of money saving up down payments, and yeah, and then, and then I started burn houses and I sort of burned duplexes, and I built up a portfolio of 42. Like, duplexes for plexes and single families. And I was managing them all myself. And then I was really crazy, then because I had a newborn child, I was managing 42 units, and I had this full time job. And I was like, there's got to, and I wouldn't really make much money, because a lot of the cash flow is going towards maintenance. And I was like, there's got to be a better way than this. So I read Joe fairless, his book on apartment syndication, the best ever apartment syndication book. And I was like, Oh, that's awesome. And I started a podcast, you've been on my show, because I wanted to start a thought leadership platform to kind of build up. And at the time, I had people that were already investing with me that wanted more people that wanted to invest with me, but I didn't, I didn't like have the bandwidth to go out and find deals like I didn't. First of all, I didn't really like know the entire wasn't comfortable enough with the entire underwriting process. And just sourcing apartments in Louisiana, where I'm from is not a great place to buy apartments, especially South Louisiana. So so the idea of like sourcing, you know, large apartments in other states was just kind of a reach for me. And that kind of bridges in what I think is going to be your next question is like, kind of how did me and Andrew hook up? Yeah, well, Andrew posted on Facebook. It's like we're 1000s of miles away. I mean, he's in Utah. I'm and in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Andrew pace on Facebook. Hey, my, my apartment syndication group is looking for a capital raiser. Does anybody is anybody interested? and send them a private message today, man, I'm interested, let's talk. And we talked and we went to go to that group. And, and they had like, they kind of just they had a different model with the investor splits. That was it wasn't something I really wanted to do. So I was like, Oh, well, I'm just I'm gonna back out because it wasn't as investor friendly as I really wanted to be leading. And he called me like a week later, he says, Look, I agree with you. Let's go do our own thing. And that was about a year and a half ago and we have been working together ever since just diligently analysing deals and looking for deals and building the brand and trying to get it together.

Brian Briscoe 8:34

Yeah, I really liked that now I would assume it was in a multifamily Facebook group that the Andrew dropped that post right i think it was bigger pockets actually. Oh bigger box. Yeah, me No idea. I don't I don't recall where it was. Yeah. So you see you dropped you drop that somewhere and it led to you know, a conversation led to a partnership later. And I see that that model repeat itself you know, very frequently you know, every case is a little different. But you know, people who are looking for a partner, you've got to put yourself out there a little bit you know, so Andrew, you went on a limb saying hey, this is what I'm looking for. dropped it in Sterling, you went on a limb on the back end saying I don't know who this guy is, but you know, I'll at least respond and start something right so yeah, I think big lesson learned from that is number one, you got to ask and number two, you got to you got to try to reach out to people so good on that one. So let's talk one thing I want to hear from both of you gave us a little bit of your backgrounds, but what's what's your big burning why you know what is motivating you guys to be successful in this industry?

Sterling Chapman 9:43

Andrew, you want to go first and tell them about the five kids you got to feed

Andrew Brough 9:49

my burning Why? I have big family to provide for them. I've also been through two job losses in the banking industry. And that really set us back financially. And so I want to be able to give myself options. I don't want to be in a situation like I was those two times, I want to be able to have options if that ever happened again.

Brian Briscoe 10:20

Yeah. And that's, that's something that Sterling brought up with his boss, you know, in his 40s, just you become dependent on a single stream of income or single source of providing for your, for your family, that source dries up, you know, it's not a good position to be in. So this is definitely a field in an industry or career that you can basically build multiple streams of income and have many different directions without monies coming in Sterling, same question for you. What's your what's your big brain? Why?

Sterling Chapman 10:49

Yeah, so it's, it's a combination, it has to do with, you know, that what we just discussed about the, you know, the insecurity of pending on one stream of income from somebody else, and all the stress and anxiety that comes along with that, and not wanting to live with that stress and anxiety. But for me, what would I I really harp on a lot is the time so people, a lot of people are in this industry, because they want to get rich and a lot of my friends and family that see how much time and energy I put into it think oh, Sterling's obsessed with getting rich, it's not getting rich that I care about at all, it's getting the time back with my family, you think about the average person, you know, retires when they're 67. Well, if I could retire when I'm 40, that literally adds 27 years to my life. That I mean, I could go to every single one of my kids baseball games or wrestling tournaments or cheerleading things, you know what I mean? I could, I could spend all that time travel with my wife, that I could live an extra life by retiring 25 years earlier.

Brian Briscoe 11:47

Yeah, and not just live a lot life on the two weeks of vacation, you get a year and you know, the occasional long weekend. So yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, it's, it takes money to be able to do that, though, you know, and money is, I think, a tool more than anything else, you know, getting that time, you'd have a lot of time, a lot of money. But hey, guess what it is, it's possible to do both. So I think for the for the working class, time on money is always the issue, but trying to get out of that. So let's talk about some of the challenges you guys face, you know, getting the ball rolling, you know, and not necessarily, you know, with each other, but your own individual journeys, you know, we decided to make that transition into multifamily. What were some of the challenges you face it? How'd you overcome those?

Sterling Chapman 12:31

Well, for for me, I can definitely tell you the answers was fear. So if I look back on it, that's, that's a big undertaking, when you when you, I'm going to go buy a several million dollar apartment complex, and I'm gonna raise the people's money to go do it. And so at one point, I can look back and I found like, Andrew was aggressive, you know, just the different roles we tend to play, I try and take more of the investor relations role, he tends to take more of the acquisition type role, because of his his, you know, background in finance and his strength and underwriting. So Andrew was coming up with deals and like looking back, I almost feel like subconsciously, I was like, trying to, like, find an excuse to get out of them. Because I was I was subconsciously afraid to take that leap. So how did you get

Brian Briscoe 13:18

how'd you overcome that? I mean, it was it was it just familiarity? And you're just looking at more and more and more in graduate becoming comfortable with it or what, what got you over that at home?

Sterling Chapman 13:29

Well, I think as as I told the story a minute ago, I had 42 units when when Andrew and I met I don't think that's the case. I think when Andrew and I met we might have had, I might have had 18 units, and then I've built up to 42 over the course of our last, you know, year and a half together. And I think that that helped. You know, as I as my portfolio grew and my confidence grew the podcast helped me a good bad interviewing people always kind of get misconstrued about the podcast. Oh, how many listeners do you have? And how popular is I don't care if anybody listens to it? I get to interview the smartest guys every single week. Yeah, you know, I always I think we talked about this. I always joke about it. When I when I first started that show I interviewed Gino Barbara from JPG now awesome. He is awesome. But a week later, I was looking through some kind of like Facebook or something. And I saw that he was selling one hour coaching sessions for $3,000. Man, I got my one hour coaching session for free. Yeah. But I think just constant exposure to you know, people that had proof of concept people that that expressed they had the same fears as me. They came from the same humble places as I did. And they were able to work through it and just seeing it over and over and over again. And then also, you know, our deal. I mean, granted, it's $4.2 million is a decent size deal, but it's you know, a lot of the ones we looked at previously were like 300 units. You know, a $20 million deal, that's a little more difficult to digest than a $5 million deal where we had additional partner sets it for us. For me personally, it's just it's been kind of baby steps up. And I know, not everybody subscribes to that thought process. Some people say, Oh, well, you know, go buy a 300 unit right out the door, I was just more comfortable along the way, creeping my way up. And, you know, I'm ready for that, that 150 unit now, but,

Brian Briscoe 15:27

you know, I think I think most people have to do the baby step approach. And, you know, my growth is baby step, baby step, baby step, baby step, giant leap, baby step, baby, step, baby step. And I have those breakthrough moments that that really pushed me forward. But it's the same thing, you know, a lot, a lot of little baby steps. And I think you hit the nail on the head, when I started putting myself around people who have done what I'm trying to do. It's those were the giant leaps, you know, those were the times where I thought, you know, what, I can go out and purchase a 50 unit apartment, you know, instead of looking for the five and eight. So anyway, thanks for that. And, Andrew, same question for you. What are the some of the challenges you had Getting Started?

Andrew Brough 16:10

You know, similar to Sterling, the fear of getting out there and talking to brokers and, and some of that thing, some of those things that, you know, the coaching, group coaching that I joined, kind of helped me get over that, you know, they they encouraged me to contact brokers and start underwriting deals. And you know, I'd already had that been talking to professionals in the industry anyway. So that helped a lot to be able to transition and start doing that. Yeah, I think that and then just not having the capital that now is concerned. And Australians helping with that, too.

Sterling Chapman 16:47

What about one of my fears was, what if we get a deal under contract, and I can't raise any money? And then like, immediately, the next fear is, what if I can raise money? What if they do say, yes? Work? What if it does

Brian Briscoe 17:01

work? Yeah. And I think, you know, our psyche does kind of play on our minds a little bit where, you know, it's, we almost have a fear of succeeding, you know, we're, we're so happy and comfortable in our lives. But what happens if we succeed? Well, that's gonna change things. But you know, I think for me, I just have to keep on reminding myself, it's going to change things for the better, it's going to add more responsibility on my shoulders, yes, you know, I won't be responsible for a couple million dollars worth of other people's money, which that's a little intimidating. It really is. But end of the day, there's, there's lots of ways to mitigate that fear. And I think you guys both found different ways to overcome your fear. And that's, I think, what separates the doers from the people who don't do, everybody has a fear, everybody has a challenge. And, you know, people who've done stuff found a way to overcome it. So what let's start talking about this, this particular deal here. So let's talk about, you know, finding the deal. And going through that process. So, you Andrew, to tell us how the group found the deal. Who else is involved? And process of getting it under contract?

Andrew Brough 18:16

Yeah, so So a couple of other of our partners have a way of they've, they've been contacting owners directly. And that's how they found it. They were cold calling owners. So they they brought me in on this to help with the capital raise. And, and I brought Sterling in on this as well. So there's, there's a few of us involved. That's initially how we found it.

Brian Briscoe 18:40

Nice, was I mean, what was it an immediate, you know, hey, we want to buy your your building, or was there it would take a little longer than that?

Andrew Brough 18:49

No, I think it It took a little bit of time. I, you know, with the owners, they're just not always ready to sell. But I think you're able to convince them, this is a good opportunity to do

Sterling Chapman 18:59

so. From my understanding that we're using virtual assistants to cold call. And they cold call in another building, I think in a different state. And then they said, Well, we don't want to sell this one. But we got this one right outside of Atlanta, that y'all might want to look at in Andrew, am I correct that the GP on the previous GP, like left the country with the money or something said that the limited partners had to take it over? And they they really didn't want to have anything to do with it. I mean, there's like a hedge fund manager and some other like, some big shots that had like zero interest in stepping foot into a 53 unit apartment complex in newnan. Georgia, you know, wow. Yeah. That was mismanaged. It was a deal that fell apart. Wow.

Brian Briscoe 19:46

Wow. Well, you know, fortunately you guys were able to, you know, have a have something in place. It's not often you hear of cold calling owners actually working once you get into the couple million dollar values, you know, 53 units in Atlanta. A $4 million purchase price. But there it is proof positive, cold calling in this space can actually work. So let's talk a little bit about the property and the business plan. You know, when you guys first looked at it and sort of underwriting it was the plan, and then we'll go into the due diligence capital raise and everything else. So, business plan first, we've got it.

Andrew Brough 20:20

Yeah. So there's 14 Classic units and nine down units. What we want to do with that is, is get those down units up and going and then get those 14 Classic units renovated. And, of course, these owners haven't really done anything with the property. In fact, I don't think there was even an online presence. I mean, he couldn't even Google to find it. So. So there's a lot of, you know, just deferred means and things that we wanted to go in and just fix it up and prove it, the community.

Brian Briscoe 20:53

Nice. And the nine down units, you know, when you say down, like torn down to the studs, or more, yeah, okay. Okay, interesting. So, so nine down, that's an immediate value add place. So 53 total units, your nine is, is almost 20% of the units down. So if you can bring those back up, you know, that's an easy 20% increase to your your kind of why every single month or every single year beyond what you're looking at. So then 14 Classic units, what was the level of, you know, renovations or, you know, refinishing we had to do to bring it up to par with the rest of the building.

Sterling Chapman 21:34

I think we're putting about eight grand into each one of the classical units. And I want to say that's warranting a rent bump from around 700 to about nine and a quarter. Okay,

Brian Briscoe 21:46

so it's about two to 25 per month for $8,000 worth of work. Okay, so, so math in public, let's see what that does. That's 3000, almost $3,000 a year in increased revenue for $8,000 worth of work, which is, I don't know, roughly 40% cash on cash return. But once again, that's that's top of my head math in public, but that those are those are some sweet numbers right there. And how much how much did you guys plan for your your down units to bring them back up?

Sterling Chapman 22:18

So we're, I'm actually going back and forth on that right now. Our initial budget was around 20. Grand, we're looking closer to about 25 right now. But there was some more in a little worse condition. We're factoring in some some other things that we weren't. So it really just depends on kind of what you include, you know, whether you're including the H fac updates, and kind of what finishes we're going back and forth on

Brian Briscoe 22:45

okay. Yeah. And still the the ROI ROI on those as well. And, you know, if you're getting about $900 per unit, once those are done, you know, multiply that by 12. Math and public again, yeah, that's about 10 grand in income a year from each one of those, which is still 40% return on investment. So you Good, good, solid plan going in the numbers were there. And you know, you guys were able to find a piece of a deal. Okay, pun intended, if you guys didn't catch that is the state. So there we go. So let's talk about due diligence, um, how that went out and start. I think that's yours, right?

Sterling Chapman 23:29

Yeah, I mean, we can we can both chime in. So we started our first property tour, we had our property management company, go and walk the units. We actually had three property management companies go and watch walk the unit simultaneously, which created a bit of a stir on the campus. Yeah. Well, it was also you got to keep in mind, there's COVID restrictions, and then there's a unruly seller. So it was it was an unusual kind of event where I think they got sent home early, they all got like, kind of cut off after a couple hours. We also had, we none of us were there on site for that initial walkthrough of the units. And so we hired a TaskRabbit that we paid, I don't know how many dollars an hour to basically just follow the property managers from unit to unit and hold up a camera phone, FaceTime does with the video. Hey, go walk over in that corner, what's that and go walk over in that corner. Because of the you know, the situation with the seller and COVID and all the folks that were in and out. We weren't able to see all the units on that particular day. So that was when we went back to the seller and renegotiated a second on site property walk and that's when I flew out and walk the remainder of the units. So it was a really good opportunity for me because I just absolutely love the area. It's you know, we say I think we say Atlanta and the MSA Atlanta MSA on the in the om and that's how you refer to it but it's actually it The town is called newnan, Georgia, and it's just a beautiful area. And just driving the streets. I mean, I've told everybody, I would buy a house across the street from the complex in a heartbeat. Like it's just a wonderful area. And talking to the current property manager, or the past property manager at this point, you know, she was she was very open about how she felt the rents could go even higher, and it had all this potential, but the previous owners wouldn't allow them to spend a dime on any of the renovations. So it gave us a really good feeling about about all the potential that we had, you know, made a good selection. And I made that visit before our earnest money went hard. So it made us feel good about about that decision as well. After that, we sent a few other folks out there. during the inspection period, we had a I think we had an engineer go and look at some settlement. And one of the buildings we had was a PCA inspection. What was that? Andrew?

Andrew Brough 25:57

Yeah, I think we right, we had due diligence report done by professional company.

Brian Briscoe 26:03

Yeah, and they also weighed in to every single unit too, right?

Andrew Brough 26:07

Well, not every unit they inspect the roofs and in the exterior,

Brian Briscoe 26:13

so so you had to get a team of inspectors that came in and did basically what inspectors do, they checked the building from from top to bottom. And, you know, obviously at a cost, you know, which is, you know, risk capital for you guys, you know, his expenses that you guys put out, but if you don't close, it's just capital with the cost of doing business. So you had all the professionals come out that gave you the reports, they gave you all the documents you needed. And end of the day, it sounds like everything you guys went into with underwriting you know, motion, things have been very verified that rent bumps the business plan was verified, and you guys decided that you guys were going to push forward the deal. Alright, so so due diligence done. Next thing we we look at, let's look at the path to closing. I think a lot of times in deals, there's always one or two or many hiccups, depending on on how things go. What challenges you guys face getting this across the finish line?

Sterling Chapman 27:11

Yeah, so we It seems we seemingly bumped into a few different things along the way, first, being kind of the the sellers unwillingness to let us have adequate access to property to complete the due diligence, we were able to power through that. We also had, you know, kind of an issue collecting all the all the proper documentation from them during the due diligence period, the financial information, so it was that was kind of pulled into it. As we get closer to the close date. And you know, we've already kind of agreed to close, we, we kind of went through a few different key principles. So some of the folks that we were trying to get to sign on the loan had the net worth, and had the liquidity and have the experience but but they didn't have the local experience. And they the lenders were being rather specific about wanting us to have local Atlanta experience to be able to sign a loan and none of us were from Atlanta, nor had any experience in Atlanta. So that was one hiccup that we had to overcome. I think we had to exercise, one of our two week extensions on the close, which we had to put additional hard money down to exercise that extension to get our loan closed in time being our being our first deal. I think we kind of dragged our feet a little bit about putting all the marketing documentation together. So we weren't able to raise capital quite as quickly as we would have wanted to, you know, we're kind of we're kind of pushing it counting our pennies up into the last minute whereas I would have liked you know, next time I'll, I'll definitely have have it all lined up for you know, sleep well the night before we signed not hoping that that last wire hits the account.

Brian Briscoe 29:01

Y'all I'll tell you the the biggest lesson learned I had after closing our first one, incidentally, the numbers are almost identical. He was 55 units at a $4.0 million dollar mark, you guys were 53 and 4.2. So the numbers were super close, biggest lesson learned for me was we needed to have a sense of urgency from the beginning. I mean, we looked at that long contract period and set up, we got plenty of time for all this stuff. But man, that clock ticks and it just seems to speed up and speed up as you go. But so so difficult seller, you know, issues with the key principle and just just to revisit that subject. In order to get a commercial real estate loan for listeners, banks are going to require you just the things that Sterling mentioned it's going to be you have to have net worth collectively that is greater than the loan amount. You have to have a certain amount of liquidity and different loan programmes vary between, you know a percentage of the loan or you know, maybe 12 months So I know some some loan programme programmes require 1012 months of principal and interest payments, you know is what you have to have liquid. And you have to have experience people on the GP as well. And most lenders just like serving said, want to have somebody in the GP that is local or close enough to the property that you're paying, basically, the lenders are trying to mitigate the risks. And you know, having somebody there on site is one less thing they have to worry about. So anyway, that aside, done, you guys were able to close close on on February 23, sweating bullets maybe the night before, but how's it gone? Since

Sterling Chapman 30:42

it's going good, I feel like we're ahead of schedule, you know, as I was telling you earlier, where, you know, we were underwritten to be at 50% occupancy right now we're we're at 80. We're underwritten to have the down units online by July, and now we're looking at and having them online by May. So rents have continued to increase in the area. So, you know, all signs are good. We're a little under budget in some areas, a little over budget and other areas. So financially, we're about flush. So, you know, I couldn't be happier with the progress at this point. Yeah, those

Brian Briscoe 31:18

are some solid numbers. And it sounds like you guys had a pretty conservative estimate going in. I mean, if you're if you're estimating 50% occupancy going in, where were you at closed, by the way,

Andrew Brough 31:30

I wrote it 63% occupancy, and we ended up with 80.

Brian Briscoe 31:35

So you estimated a 63% occupancy in your underwriting unfortunately, you guys were at 80 when you close so you've been able to crush your numbers. So good conservative underwriting definitely helps out when it comes to meeting the numbers later on. Alright, so a couple of questions. As we wrap up, though, I want both you guys answer the same question. What's next for you?

Andrew Brough 31:57

Yeah, we're, we're, you know, looking for another deal. You know, we're looking for another deal to take down similar size or bigger. And, you know, we got the podcast, we're increasing our online presence. And we feel like we'll be able to do this again. Nice.

Brian Briscoe 32:15

Yes. Serving anything to add.

Sterling Chapman 32:18

Yeah, absolutely. We were really looking to take down a couple more deals. Before the end of the year, we've been revamping our website, writing some some lead magnets trying to increase our Investor Relations programme, as well as as you know, Andrews has really ramped up his his deal sourcing, he's been teamed up with a couple other groups, including the one we worked on this deal with to underwrite as many projects as we can until we make something stick. But we're, we're going real aggressive. We're pouring a lot of time, attention and money into our marketing, both on the acquisition and Investor Relations side.

Brian Briscoe 32:59

Right. Now, here's my favourite question, the whole podcast, I do save the best for last. What advice would you give an aspiring investor, that's six to 12 months behind where you are right now?

Andrew Brough 33:10

I'd say just keep trying. I mean, I saw it was 2018 that I actually spoke the broker and said, you know, and he said, You need to get some education, like what? A closing all these, you know, commercial loans, these big loans. You know, why do I need education, but I did. And so it took a little while, you know, it took a while to get there. But just keep trying. I mean, day after day, phone call after phone call, eventually, you'll you'll be able to get get where you want to be. Yeah,

Sterling Chapman 33:44

I would have to echo what Andrew saying. I think you know, tenacity and just not giving up is really the only difference between people that give up and people that don't give up. It's a process. So you're not going to go you know, buy a $5 million apartment complex two weeks after you decide you want to go buy a $5 million apartment complex, unless you happen to be somebody who has $5 million. Yeah, yeah, 5 million in the bank. Yeah, for what we're trying to do in this business. It's a process. It takes a year. I mean, it doesn't have to, I know a lot of people who've gone out there and hired coaches and gotten something done in three months. And I never did that, because I'm hard headed. And I had to take the, you know, the long road, but a lot of the really successful folks I talked to have done that. So if I could go back in time, I might consider it. I mean, I didn't really have the cash laying around by a $25,000 coaching programme, but you know, if I did like it seems to be a shortcut that has worked well for a lot of folks. Yeah.

Brian Briscoe 34:43

It was it was definitely an accelerator for me. And that's that's the best way to put it is it reduced the time between you know, first crack and first deal, you know, so I was able to depending on when you start the clock, you know, we close on our first deal within the first year. So after about four months of coaching, five months of coaching, we had our first deal under contract. So it definitely reduces the amount of time. They're there. There's lots of good reasons for coaching lots of good reasons for getting a mentor. And oh, by the way, you know, a lot of people were able to get mentors without paying the 25k or 30k or 50k, whatever people are charging now, but good prices advisory both your Thanks a lot. And last question for both of you. how can listeners learn more about you and Sterling? You're going first this time?

Sterling Chapman 35:32

Awesome, awesome. So they can find either one of us on Facebook. We're both active Facebook on our own names. They could check out our podcast, the rent roll radio show. They could go to our website, crest Werth capital comm or they could go to our podcast website, which is rent roll I don't mind throwing my number out there to anybody who wants to reach out and talk real estate. It's 225-247-5562. And then our email addresses are just our names at crossword capital. So Sterling at crossword capital, or Andrew at crossword capital.

Brian Briscoe 36:09

All right, Andrew, anything to add to that?

Andrew Brough 36:12

No, you can also find me on LinkedIn. Now my number is 801-707-0725. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see that on it.

Brian Briscoe 36:22

Alright, awesome. So, so good enough. and contact information is going to be in the show notes. So if you're interested in hitting up the rent roll radio, as Tony mentioned before, you know, I was a guest on one of those, but we'll put a link to the rent roll radio, the websites, you guys mentioned, social media profiles, and we'll drop your phone numbers in the show notes. So if anybody wants to contact them, you know, don't worry about hitting the rewind button and copying things down. Just tap, swipe, tap, and you know, the magical internet will whisk you away. So alright. Hey, cool. Thanks so much to the both of you for for coming on the podcast today. You know, once again, congratulations on closing the property. You know, as we're recording, it's about a month after. You know, by the time this airs, it'll be a couple months but you know, congratulations and look forward to you know, a lot bigger properties and more properties in the future.

Thank you for listening to the direction apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcasts or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, tap subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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