First Deal Episode with Clive Davis



Episode 219 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Clive Davis. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.



Listen to the episode here




Brian Briscoe 0:00

So what advice now would you give to an aspiring investor who's six to 12 months behind you?


Clive Davis 0:06

You've got to start early. So if you have a goal of taking down or large scale multifamily, you got to kind of work backwards and think about what are the things that I need to be investing my time into now that are going to bear fruit for me and and make it an easier transition or an easier accomplishment? You know, whether that's six months, 12 months or more down the line. And so some things that you should be doing is cultivating your network and your your database and refreshing those relationships.


Brian Briscoe 0:47

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe with Foros capital. Very excited for today's show. It's one of our first deal series episodes. And we have Clive Davis on the line with us today who recently closed on a 244 unit in the Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia Metro. We'll talk more about the deal, but just give you highlights to see class Value Add Asset they purchased for $29.4 million and include you guys close on that very recently. Right?


Clive Davis 1:40

Yeah, just last week. So we're literally weekend to ownership. Yeah.


Brian Briscoe 1:44

All right. Awesome. So anyway, Clive, welcome to the show. And thank you so so much for being on.


Clive Davis 1:50

Appreciate it, Brian, thanks for having me on. I'm a listener to the show. So it's a thrill to be on with you.


Brian Briscoe 1:56

Yeah, yeah, this is fun. When we connected. You're probably a year ago on LinkedIn. I think we've been we've been, you know, following each other for quite a while. So it's been fun to see your progress and getting into this. So do us a favor, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and history and what got you into multifamily?


Clive Davis 2:14

Sure. So the professional background is I started out as a corporate transactional lawyer working with a Wall Street firm in New York City, ABA law school. So I did that for a few years. Ultimately, I was a capital markets attorney. So working on debt and equity offerings, working with some of the major investment banks that you would be familiar with, and by extension their clients. So I did that for a few years before transition into becoming an in house counsel for Pfizer, who's in the news a lot these days, for good reasons, yet, work for them. And they ultimately transitioned me or transferred me to Atlanta 16 years ago. And I was the their Regional Attorney for their southeast business. And two more years into that I transitioned and became a chief compliance officer for a Belgium farmer did that for all in all about nine years. So a 20 year corporate run before I made the full time transition into real estate, and the focus that I'm on today, which is pursuit of large scale multifamily.


Brian Briscoe 3:29

Nice. So what prompted that transition? I mean, you had a really good career sounds like I mean, you have you had long, long stints with businesses. So obviously, you were doing well, you know, for them to keep you and keep on moving up to the chain. But what what prompted the move from practicing law to multifamily?


Clive Davis 3:49

Yeah, so I, from throughout most of my corporate life, I have invested in real estate, kind of peripheral to my nine to five day job. So it was never anything that I was reliant on for as a source of income. It was never anything that was kind of primary focus for me. But it's something that I've always had kind of my fingertips on, and had an appreciation for. And you know, after 20 years, I basically just got to the point where I said, If not now, when. So at the time that I left corporate life, I was in my I think I was 4546. And I had always flirted with being an entrepreneur of some sort. And even when I went to law school, I didn't necessarily intend to practice traditionally, I always had kind of an aspiration of being some sort of an entrepreneur. And then because of my interest in real estate, you know, those two kind of combined to suggest Hey, maybe you need to give something a shot in this space. And after put an ad In 20 years, you're right, I had done well, I was doing well, like I reached the level where I was highly compensated. But as I told someone, literally 30 minutes ago, you cannot pass on a high income to your children and grandchildren. True. So you can be highly compensated today. And tomorrow you can go in and they can say, you know, Brian, we appreciate your service, we're going in a different direction, and we no longer have a need for you, or your role. And so it's nice to be highly compensated. But that is not how you create generational wealth. And that's something that is really important to me.


Brian Briscoe 5:44

Yeah, I like that I like how you your phrase that you can't pass a high income to, to your children and grandkids. You know, that's, you know, there's nothing wrong, I spent, I spent 20 years in government, you know, and I just transitioned from, from military to to entrepreneurship. And that's the same thing in just about every job, I mean, you get to the point to where you're making good income, you know, and I have a pension now, which, you know, is, in a way, kind of archaic, but I still cash the checks every month. But, you know, I can't pass that on, you know, I can pass it on to my wife, you know, she'll get 55% of that. But, you know, nothing goes to kids and grandkids, but building assets, you know, building real estate, building a business, you know, having shares and stuff like this, you can actually pass on. So I love that. Thank you for making that point. That's something I think I everybody knows in the back of their heads, but I'm glad you articulated it. So how did you? How did you find that transition? I mean, what challenges did you have moving from, you know, corporate law into the entrepreneurship out of multifamily.


Clive Davis 6:51

So the first thing that you've got to do is recognize and embrace that you've got to step outside your comfort zone, you can, the corporate world or for you the military for you know, couple of decades, that is a world that you're very comfortable in. And you tend to flourish in a place where you know, it's a comfort zone. And that comes with comfort zone, because you're doing things repetitively in without giving a lot of thought, because you know, you're comfortable definition, absolutely. And so when you embrace the transition from from that to the unknown, and for me, kind of, you know, large scale multifamily in this world that at that time was an unknown, and so you got to get comfortable with, I am going to kind of, you know, flop around a little bit, while I kind of figure out, get my sea legs under me, and figure out this new terrain that I'm navigating, um, you know, what your destination is, but um, you know, before you can reach your destination, you got to feel uncomfortable. And so that was the first thing and so, you know, in many respects, you're learning a new language. And so, you know, the language of multifamily. While I always say real estate is, is fairly simple, but it's not necessarily intuitive. And so you've got to get exposure to the space, you've got to be in conversations and around people who are speaking the language, and you've got to learn the language and become proficient in the language. And so all of that is, is is forcing you to exercise muscles that you may not have had to exercise, whatever it is that you were doing before previously. And so that's part of that discomfort that you've got to embrace and take on. And so, you know, as a, as you get to the point of starting to talk to brokers and, and networking and being able to, again, talk the language and sound like you know, what you're talking about, and not, you know, embarrassing yourself. Because you're not, you know, speaking the language correctly, or your your language is full of grammatical errors. Okay, he's not from here, he must be new in town. And so, you know, all of that transition just requires you to, to humble yourself and say, whatever level of success you've had in a prior life, that doesn't automatically transfer or translate into the new space. And so you got to be comfortable with that. And that requires a little bit of humility, and purchase, which is fine. I generally think of myself as a it's a fairly humble guy. And so, you know, that's part of the transition. But uh, one of the things that I did early on was focus on what is it that I want to do, who's doing what I want to do and how do I put myself in proximity to them? And how do I start networking and putting myself in networks where there are folks who are doing exactly what it is that I want to do and so yeah, that was part of the journey.


Brian Briscoe 10:00

All right now, there were a lot of pearls of wisdom there, you know, I started keeping track and you know, mentally but I, you know, just just lot to unpack, but you said a lot of things that were very profound. I mean, the first steps into multifamily, you know, regardless of what career you come from, are like first steps in anything, you know, clumsy and awkward, and you fall down a lot, and you got to push through it. And that's, that's, that's the same for everybody. I mean, you were a corporate attorney, 20 years. You know, I was active duty military for 20 years, and we both had the same, it's true of most everybody, they had the same experience when they're moving into a different field just because it's unfamiliar. And, and I like what you said, you know, towards the end there as well were to be able to mitigate that, you know, you started looking for people who were doing what you want to do, and finding ways to get around them. So if, if you would like to talk about that just a little bit more, before we get into your first deal. You know, how did you how did you find these people? Where did you find these people? And what did you do to get around them?


Clive Davis 11:05

Yeah, so when I first left corporate life, one of the things that I started to do is so first, I said, I believe in commercial real estate and primarily focused on multifamily. So one of the first things I did is I said, Okay, I'm not leaving my money in those kind of legacy 401 K's I would get my money out of the stock market. And I want to put the money into a space that I believe in and that I'm now transitioning into. And so I began to invest in large scale deals with institutional quality sponsors. And for me, I did that through one of the crowdsource platforms, that's opened up to accredited investors, and beyond kind of the expected return on my investment for any of the fields that I invested in, that was also a form of my education. Because it gives you a firsthand look at what is it to be an investor, from that perspective invested in one of these deals? What is What does good look like? Or not? Yeah. And how are they structuring their deals. And so I tended to focus on the types of deals that I aspire to do one day, I didn't know when I would be doing them, whether that be 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, whatever, I, I tended to focus on the deals that I aspired to do in the markets that I felt were attractive for a variety of reasons. And so I started doing that. So that got me exposure to some sponsors. So that was one piece of it. And then the other thing, beyond kind of the general education of, you know, podcasts and listen in books and attending conferences, when I was in corporate life, the only conferences I attended are the ones that were work related, that my job was paying me to attend. But now I found myself would have in time, and so I started attending, this is pre COVID, I started attending conferences that were real estate, multifamily, focused, syndication, that type of thing. And it was on my dime. And that put me in direct contact with people who were like minded, who believed in multifamily, who were investing in multifamily. And in many instances, were leading their own deals. And so that put me in close proximity with people right out the gate. So, um, so those are some of the steps and then finally, I decided to join a multifamily mentoring program. And, you know, I checked out a few, you know, higher profile folks kind of provide an education in the space and then ultimately, I decided on one group and parachuted in and, and, you know, right away you're in close proximity to people who 100% believe in the benefits of passively and actively invested in multifamily. And you are most are buying into a club almost or a network. And then you're from there, you're able to develop those one to one personal relationships where you start to get to know people like them and trust them and, and, and really develop solid relationships.


Brian Briscoe 14:34

Absolutely. And I think that that's, that's a really solid recipe for success. I mean, you passively invested first, which does a lot for you, you get to know the sponsors, you get to know deals, you get to know markets, but you get to know things from an investor mindset as well. You know, so you know, what investors are looking for. And you probably learned a little bit about the questions that investors have going into deals. You started going to these big conferences, putting yourself around to sponsors, and then the paid mentorship, you know, I think I did a paid mentorship program as well. And just just the people that put me around is worth the cost. And a lot of people look at that cost, and they're like, you know, am I gonna pay that much, but I think just the connections I made through that mentorship program, were worth the price of admission. So thank you, thanks for sharing all that. And once again, you know, really solid blueprint for for getting around the right people. Now, before we get into the first deal, talking about this deal, one question I asked everybody, and I'd love to hear your answer to this. What is your big burning? Why?


Clive Davis 15:41

Sure. And I think I alluded to it earlier, but for me, it's, it's really two components, and they're interrelated. So the first piece is, is freedom. And so I mentioned earlier that, you know, you can be highly compensated, but your time is not your own, and you're kind of hired out. And your time is someone else's. So for me, freedom is really key and a key component for the path that I'm on now. And then related to that is the the creation and generation of true generational wealth. So, and when I talk about that, I mean, lots of people use the phrase, but when I talk about that, I'm talking about creating wealth that my not yet conceived grandchildren will experience and be impacted by. And so I don't care how highly compensated you are, you cannot pass on high income. For me real estate, when I kind of assess people that have been successful throughout American history, I can't think of too many of them where real estate hasn't played an integral role in their their wealth and wealth that they've passed down for generations. And so I want to, you know, that's never been done in my family, you know, I'm first generation college, and I want to be first generation are the first in my family to create generational wealth, that, again, my grandchildren will be impacted by and experience.


Brian Briscoe 17:15

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah, and I have many yet to be conceived grandkids as well, that I want to be able to impact as well. And, you know, a lot of a lot of what you said definitely resonates with me, you know, some some very, you know, key things right there, you know, be be that person that makes the impact, you know, be the person that makes the change in the history, you know, so very much appreciate that. Well, let's start talking about deal specific stuff, you know, and I, and when we talk about deal specific stuff, first thing I want to highlight here is the team that you were with. So let's talk first about your team, you know, if one person can very rarely tackle a 244 unit, you know, by him or herself, but if you'd go ahead and tell us about the team that came together to put this deal together.


Clive Davis 18:02

Yeah. So if you're going to play in this space, I don't care what your resources are experienced, or what have you. Yet, if you're going to be successful, you're going to increase the likelihood of success if you surround yourself with people, and a team that is there to support you and kind of take up some of the slack and play different roles. Because this space is you know, Brian has very distinct roles. And I don't know the one person who can do them all well. And so you got to surround yourself with a team. So for me, I had to primary have two primary partners on this deal that we just closed, and one is based in Houston. One is based in Dallas, and I'm the boots on the ground here in Atlanta. So, you know, I kind of quarterback the deal, um, but they brought a ton of value to everything that I was doing, they brought experience to the table, because both of them have syndicated multiple deals themselves. So they brought that experience to me. You know, they obviously brought their networks to the deal, as we kind of transitioned into capital raising for the deal. And so it's really been a true team effort to get this across the finish line. And, and I would extend that to kind of our lender and our insurance broker and our tax consultant. And all of these folks are folks I consider to be part of our team. Because without any one of those roles being played. I'm not sure we could be successful.


Brian Briscoe 19:42

Yeah. Now, where did you meet these members? Are these companies come from the mentorship group or one of the conferences you attended?


Clive Davis 19:49

So absolutely. So the mentorship group that I joined, I met both these individuals in that group and we've been kind of plotting and planning and pursuing opportunities. For some time now, and, you know, finally got this breakthrough, but you know, earlier you talked about the investment in yourself and kind of the investment in these mentorship programs and my thinking all along was the ROI on this investment, you know, if I do one deal that will more than pay for this investment. And so, no, I think, you know, this, that, for me, it's, it's, it's really paid off, you know, multiple in multiple ways, both in terms of the individuals that I'm partnered with, that I would not have necessarily connected with, but for, you know, my membership in this group, and ultimately, in this deal that we're going to talk more about,


Brian Briscoe 20:45

is now, something something you mentioned, and I get a lot of questions about this. I mean, you were you were in the mentorship group, and you talk about partnering with people who already had experience. You know, what did? What did you bring to the table? I mean, what did you have to offer these guys that made them think, you know, I like this Clive guy, I want I want to be one of his partners, I want him to partner with us on stuff.


Clive Davis 21:11

Yeah, so I've, I've always well, not always, but I've positioned myself as, first of all, I've got boots on the ground in a very dynamic market that are hot markets on the market. So for each of them, you know, they have done deals in Texas in San Antonio, DFW Houston Arkansas, St. Pete, Florida, but they'd never entered the Georgia market, and specifically in the Atlanta market. So that was my kind of first position is, is that I can pursue opportunities and bring them for us to assess and you know, that's from from from sourcing the deal, touring the deal, developing the relationships on the ground, with brokers, all of the things that you need to do, if you're familiar with Brian to get the these opportunities. That's what I was offering up. And so I underwrote the deal, like, you know, I did all of the things that are necessary, and then made recommendations as this, this is what we should be offering on this deal. This is what's attractive about this deal. And so basically eliminated the need for them to be in the Atlanta market. But still, nonetheless, they're able to benefit from opportunities in the market, because of my presence here. I think my background, as a corporate transactional lawyer, kind of gives gave them a sense of, you know, you know, what I was capable of doing, and what I could apply to the multifamily space. And so for a lot of reasons, there were synergies. And, you know, it's, it's really worked out well.


Brian Briscoe 22:53

Nice, nice. And I think your your background is, as an attorney really helped. I mean, you started at the very beginning talking about working in the securities industry and whatnot. So you definitely had a lot of, you know, good solid experience that would indicate that you're a good person to work with, you're in the metro, you're able to underwrite the property or to walk the properties make those relationships. And I would agree that that does make you are an absolutely valuable partner in anything in especially in the Atlanta area. Alright, so specifically on this deal, let's talk about how you found the deal.


Clive Davis 23:29

Yeah, so it was, um, you know, I hear about these unicorn off market properties, but I've, I've yet to wrestle one of those to the ground. So this one was a publicly marketed, fully marketed opportunity by one of the big brokerage firms. And so I learned about it, I underwrote it, I jumped in the car, I drove the property, I got familiar with it real quick, and started pursuing it aggressively. But it was offered on by many others who pursued it. And we were able to wrestle it to the ground. Yeah.


Brian Briscoe 24:10

How did you make your offer stand out? Or how did you make your offer competitive? I mean, was there something extra something additional you guys put in? Did you guys put a higher price in earnest money deposit higher deposit? What what do you think made your offer? The one that the owners accepted?


Clive Davis 24:27

It's a great, it's a great question. And now that we're close, I should probably because I do know the the the sellers, I should probably go back and ask them what put us over the top. But yeah, I think, um, when I enter, right, and when I put in an offer, and I just did this yesterday, beyond kind of the LOI itself, I like to give the seller a sense that I have done a little bit more than all of the other offers that they're receiving. And so I like to put more thought into what is Our business plan, what are we going to do to the property? How are we going to elevate it or do you know take it to a different level than where it is today. So I tend to put a lot of thought into that and try and convey that, you know, in the accompany an email, or if I get to the point of a buyer interview, I try and convey that, that I'm, you know, first of all, I'm here I'm on the ground, I have an interest and a knowledge in the, in the, in the market and in sub market, this isn't just another deal that I'm phoning in, you know, this is something where, you know, I, you know, I have a connection to because, you know, Atlanta is home for me. So we have a lot of kind of non Georgia based buyers who are pursuing opportunities here. And I think, you know, one way of differentiating yourself, if that's your truth is, is to be able to say, look, I'm here I'm in the community. And I have an interest in in how this community does and this community doing well. And so I try and I try and surround my offer with some of those intangibles that not every buyer, or institutional buyer is going to be able to, to convey, or at least authentically convey.


Brian Briscoe 26:18

No, I think that's smart, obviously worked for you, but just just thinking off the cuff, you know, when you add those extra details in there, you know, it shows to the sellers and to the brokers that you have absolutely done your homework, you know, so you you know exactly what's entail, which gives them a little more confidence going forward with you, that you guys aren't gonna back out during due diligence, because you've put the effort in to understand the property, understand the market, understand the neighborhoods, so a lot of that risk is taken off the table. And the other thing I was thinking of, as you were explaining is, you know, if the seller has an emotional attachment to the property, you know, if you're showing, hey, this is what we're going to do to make it better. I think a lot, I've heard a lot of cases where the sellers are like, I like those guys, because they're going to treat the property. Like, I want to treat it, you know, in in a lot of ways, because, you know, I know it is a business, you know, I know you're not supposed to get emotionally attached, but we're humans. And we do you know, so if you can convey that to a lot of sellers, you may just be pulling on that right stream that says, you know, I want to sell it to somebody who's going to you whether they stated, you know, verbally or not subconsciously ladies guys are thinking I want to sell us to somebody who's gonna take care of the asset, just like we've taken care of it. So I think there's a lot of wisdom in what you said there. So 244 units, $29 million dollar purchase price, how much money did you guys have to raise for this?


Clive Davis 27:45

So we raised just about eight and a quarter million in equity.


Brian Briscoe 27:51

All right, any any big lessons learned from them from the capital race.


Clive Davis 27:56

So lessons learned from the capital raise a few. So I connected and reconnected with individuals I had not been in touch with since I graduated law school. So one of my early investors was a, a law school classmate of mine who literally we had not communicated. Since we graduated, we have a friend in common that we're both in touch with. And that common friend had told this other friend, hey, you know what, Clive's up to? And, and he said, Yeah, I'd love I'd love to hear it, you know, give me my number. And so yeah, we connected in that way. And he turned out to be one of one of my largest investors. And and, and the lesson for me is that, um, the relationships and the reputational equity that you have developed over the years, can be tapped into, you know, for the purpose of raising capital for one of these deals. And so a lot of times you fill in, like, oh, man, you know, and I was even filling this, you know, I've not spoken to him and so many I, I can't share a deal with him, you know, he's gonna be like, Why are you reaching out to me, you know, we haven't spoken in years, and we got on the phone. And we started talking and chatting and texting, like we, we had, you know, never skipped a beat. And the lesson for me, and that is that, you know, in all of our careers and journeys, we've developed relationships along the way, and you got to recognize that, you know, assuming that you generated, you know, quality, meaningful relationships and connections, those those connections don't expire, just because you're not in the same circles or not having the same level of communication that you once did. And so, if you're in capital raisin, you've got to reach deep back into your network. And you never know, you know, where that capital is going to come from.


Brian Briscoe 29:54

You know, I experienced a lot of the same things, you know, being being active duty, you know, I've moved, you know, to 10 times in a 20 year military career, and you know, it's, it's, it's almost like every, every position, every seat in an organization is a revolving door, you know, I moved on average every two years. But guess what every single seat in the entire organization, every organization I was in was the same. And so there, there's people that I was with for a year here or six months there, or maybe a full two years at another location. Some of these guys caught wind of what I was doing, and this is where social media is powerful. Some of these guys got caught wind of what I was doing, and reached out to me, you know, there, there are people who have invested with us that I haven't seen in, you know, a dozen years, but I think you're absolutely right, that relationship that you had with them 12 years ago, you know, it may not be top of mind, but it's still there. And you can still tap into that. And I think there's a lot of power with that. So let's talk real quick about closing the property, talk about finding, we talked about Chloe, excuse me, the capital raise, let's talk about some of the lessons learned and maybe some of the big challenges you guys had to overcome, you know, getting to the closing table.


Clive Davis 31:14

Yeah, so, um, fortunately, I don't really have any big challenges or, you know, unexpected twists and turns that occurred, I think of it, and I come from a transactional world. And so I tend to think of it as as being in relatively speaking a smooth transaction, you know, even the closing, you know, got pushed back a little bit. And that was primarily based upon kind of just the backlog of loans in our lenders pipeline. And, you know, that was something that everyone on all sides of the table understood, you know, the selling broker, the seller, you know, so it wasn't a situation where, you know, that was being viewed as something that kind of fell at our feet, it's just the reality of the market. So we kind of took that in stride, but, um, it was, it was fairly smooth transaction, but I credit that to the team, that I had the pleasure of being surrounded by, because with different team members, um, you know, that, you know, that could have been a very different story. I know, we just focused on the insurance for a second, we had a quote, that we were running with that we thought, that's what we're going to be able to underwrite to and close, close on. And short story, we had to switch horses in terms of our insurance broker and coverage. And ultimately, I was, I'm really happy with who we were able to go in, because that's someone who's kind of been supporting me in this journey, you know, for the one to two years that I've been pursuing deals. And so we ended up having to switch horses switch lanes, kind of at the last minute, so that that created a little bit of anxiety, but um, you know, again, you surround yourself with with solid people who are committed to getting the deal done, you're going to get it done, and hopefully without too many heart palpitations.


Brian Briscoe 33:18

You know, and one more key that you mentioned there, you know, our first closing we had, I mean, it seemed like everything was was a speed bump, you know, it seemed like every time the broker would ask for anything, or the bank would ask for everything it was, it was a speed bump. But, you know, we've closed on nine deals, and now we're revising a group through another deal in Augusta, Georgia, actually pretty, pretty close to where you're at. But, you know, if you have that experience, you're able to, you know, what they're going to ask for, you know, because the lenders are asking for the same things, almost every transaction, the closing attorney is asking for the same things, almost every transaction, the brokers that, you know, everybody involved, you know, it's, they're, they're doing their cookie cutter, this is what we need for your insurance, quote, This is what we need for your loan, this is what we need to close. And if you have the experience, you can anticipate a lot of that, you know, what's coming up, and you can be ready for it. And I think that's one of the biggest values of jumping on with an experienced team already, is you don't have to, you know, you don't have to learn by stumbling through that experience. So, so you closed last week. Tell tell us how, you know what you guys have done so far. You know, what you did for that transition of ownership up till now, obviously, you know, you're seven days into it. So, you know, it's not going to be a whole lot.


Clive Davis 34:36

Yeah, so for the most part, I've been kind of staying out of our property management companies here and allowing them to kind of facilitate the transition. And and I think I mentioned to you earlier, so we'll have our first kind of formal conversation with our property manager. After I get done with this conversation, but I'm really One thing I would say is that we focused early on in terms of key personnel that we wanted to secure for the property. And fortunately, we had a relationship with the seller such that they were very comfortable sharing with us, you know, this individual's an asset, this individual's an asset, and you would do well to keep them in place and secure. And so we kind of were early into that, even before we closed the deal. And so that that's important, and I have a new appreciation for the importance of that, and my partner is routinely says that, you know, 70, or 80%, of the success of any deal is going to come down to the property management. And so, you know, we made that a priority early on. And so, I feel alright, we're only a weekend, but already, I've developed personally a relationship with the onsite property manager, such that, you know, we can tax them, we can call one another. And, you know, I think all of that will continue to pay dividends throughout the life of the of the ownership of the property. So it's still early with six or seven days in, but we're off to a good start, we've already identified that our pro forma rents were turned out to be very conservative. I think across many of the floor plans, we're going to be able to hit those pro forma rents, even without picking up a hammer. So it's early days, and all of that needs to be proven out. But you know, it's looking very promising.


Brian Briscoe 36:47

Awesome, well, good luck as you guys transition. I mean, I think I'd say good luck, because, you know, it's, it's just what people say, but every time I say that, I remind myself that you make your own luck. And it sounds like you guys are well well postured to succeed. So good luck, in the sense that, you know, I know you guys are gonna make your own good luck and good fortune. So, um, so that said, you know, what's next for you?


Clive Davis 37:14

Yeah, what's next for me is is is more of the same, I'm actively pursuing additional opportunities. Just yesterday, I submitted an offer, hoping to hear today or tomorrow, whether or not we were able to get awarded that deal and get that under contract. You know, I've told the brokers who sold us the deal that we closed on last week, I conveyed to that they took me out to lunch, and I conveyed to them that, you know, I would like to do, you know, three or four of these deals a year. And, you know, that's music to their ears. And, you know, I put it out there because, you know, if you're going to manifest anything you've got to speak it into into being into fruition. So I would definitely do more of these deals. And I envision that, at some point, I'm going to take on some development opportunities. My partner is a pretty proficient developer himself, in addition to the syndication deals that he does. And so, you know, he's he's been trying to convince me that we can do the same here in Georgia that he's doing in Dallas and other markets. And so that's something that's probably on the horizon, probably after I get a few more of these deals under my belt, and, you know, we'll we'll look at that opportunity.


Brian Briscoe 38:38

Awesome. Awesome. Now, I understand you also run a Facebook group as well. Can you tell us a little bit about that?


Clive Davis 38:44

Yeah, it's it's the African American multifamily investor network. And, and it's interesting how that came about. I think myself, one of my partners, and a few others attended one of these real estate conferences. And we connected with some other folks there at the conference. And then we started communicating via email afterwards. And someone said, Man, this is this is really cumbersome. You know, we need a platform, or we need a group or we need something where we can kind of share with one another. And I took that and ran with it and set up this group. And really, the idea is, you know, I know I'm a member of probably two dozen, if not more multifamily related groups. But one of the things that I recognize is that, you know, African Americans in commercial real estate specifically, are woefully underrepresented. And I think the figure is something like less than 2% are African Americans into commercial real estate space. So I really wanted to curate a space where, you know, folks with a similar background, who didn't necessarily grow up having exposure or proximity to Commercial Real Estate folks could have kind of a safe space where they could learn the language. Learn from other folks who are doing what it is that they may not be familiar with, and may not believe it's possible for them, because they don't necessarily see or they haven't necessarily seen individuals who look like them or come from similar backgrounds doing, you know, large scale multifamily. Now we have folks in the group who, you know, their aspiration is I just want to buy my first duplex, and that I want that to be my first real estate purchase, and I want to buy a single family and I want to burn it. We have folks on that end of the spectrum, and then we have folks on the opposite end of the spectrum who are closing, you know, transactions with 1300 Plus units in one deal. So that's really what that was about. And, you know, we welcome all folks into the group who can add value to the group. And we have folks playing all kinds of roles across the commercial real estate spectrum. So really happy with the group, it's up to 1100 folks right now, and continues to grow.


Brian Briscoe 41:08

Alright, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes. It sounds like an amazing group. And I think there's a lot of things to reiterate as well, you know, first one of the first things I noticed in my first big real estate conferences, exactly what you noticed the lack of diversity, you know, there, there was not a lot of diversity. And, you know, I, I applaud you for doing what you're doing. And, you know, making sure that other people know that they can do it as well, you know, it's open to everybody. It's just that, you know, for some reason, you know, not everybody has jumped in to this market yet. So, right. Alright, so what advice now would you give to an aspiring investor who's six to 12 months behind


Clive Davis 41:47

you? Yeah, a few things come to mind, I would say that, um, if you've got to start early, so if you have a goal of taking down or large scale multifamily, you got to kind of work backwards and think about what are the things that I need to be invested my time into now that are going to bear fruit for me and and make it an easier transition or an easier accomplishment, you know, whether that's six months, 12 months or more down the line. And so some things that you should be doing is cultivating your network cultivating your, I won't say Rolodex, because


Brian Briscoe 42:28

he knows what that is anymore, right and aren't familiar


Clive Davis 42:30

with the Rolodex, but cultivating your network and your your database and refreshing those relationships. So I talked about, you know, the importance of if you're going to engage in capital raising, and none of these deals get done without capital being raised, you've got to be laying the groundwork for that time, when you're going to pick up the phone or send out that note or meet in person, you don't want the first time that that person that's sitting across from you, you don't want that to be the first time they're hearing about what you're doing in real estate. So you've got to be building your brand, you've got to be planting the seeds within your network that, Hey, I am now doing this and and you need to be sharing with them and touching them. You know, over that six months, so that when you finally reach out to them and say, Hey, remember what we've talked about the last two or three times that we've chatted, I've got one of those deals now, you may want to take a look at it you may be interested in so that cultivation of your network is critical. And I didn't appreciate the importance of it as much when I was in corporate life. But in real estate, relationships and network are everything. And I would say invest your time there. Yeah, yeah, I


Brian Briscoe 43:51

think that once again, you know, you've had a lot of pearls during this entire episode, and just reiterate one more thing, you know, especially capital raising, start early, you know, start early. And one thing that I've adopted is I'm always in a capital raising mode, I'm always looking for people who are interested in investing, you know, because, you know, we may or may not have an active deal right now, but still, I'm always looking for somebody who's interested to bring them into the fold. Because, you know, once you're under contract, you have a very limited amount of time to get people into the deal. All right now we are almost completely out of time. And I know you got the call with your property manager coming up. So last question, how can our listeners learn more about you?


Clive Davis 44:34

Sure. I'm active on LinkedIn. I'm active on Facebook, so you can find me on those platforms. email if you reach out to me Clive c li ve at Park Royal capital.com. You can get me I freely give out my phone number which is 770-366-4093. I'm pretty responsive. Whether you reaching out to me via LinkedIn or Facebook or email I generally pride myself on getting back to you even if it's to say I got your message. Let's set up a call or let's set up a time to talk


Brian Briscoe 45:12

perfect and what will have links to the email and to the to your LinkedIn profile and your phone number in the show notes for anybody who's interested in reaching out to Clive, you know, please do or just join his ask to join his community on Facebook as well. That said, Clive, thank you so much for coming on this show you added a ton of value a lot of like I said, pearls of wisdom that came out in this episode, and I very much appreciate your time.


Clive Davis 45:35

Appreciate being on Brian, thanks so much.


Brian Briscoe 45:54

Thank you for listening to the direction apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favorite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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