Educating and Communicating with Investors with Jeff Anzalone and Kevin Leonce

Episode 175 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Jeff Anzalone and Kevin Leonce. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

That's it. Kevin, we got Dr. Jeff on the line here. What do you want to ask him?

Unknown Speaker 0:03

Is that some sort of upfront identification of these risks to your investors so that they understand what they're getting involved in before they actually do it.

Unknown Speaker 0:15

You know, figure it out what your niche is, and then just do everything you can to provide education to your investors. About that, and again, that that will help them see you really as the expert in your area for sure.

Brian Briscoe 0:40

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investing field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. Welcome to dive in apartment investor podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe with probes capital very excited for today's show. It's another one of our Ask the Expert episodes. We have two great people on the line with us. We have Dr. Jeff Anzalone and Kevin Leon's with us. So Dr. Jeff, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:22

Thanks, Brian, for having me. I appreciate it. And looking forward to it.

Brian Briscoe 1:25

Yeah, it's gonna be a good time. And for anybody listening, we're gonna put his bio down in the show notes. If you're interested in learning more, hit up the show notes. And that said, Jeff, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Unknown Speaker 1:37

Sure. I'm a full time practicing periodontist in Louisiana. And about two weeks before I completed my residency, the group practice that I was supposed to go in with here in Louisiana, my hometown in Monroe, they basically call the deal off. So that left me with left us with a two month old 300,000 in student loan debt, we had already bought a home paying interest only on it. And the worst part was, I didn't know what to do, I didn't know how to run a practice, start a practice nothing. And you know, with with real estate, you're you always read about, it's all about the mindset, you know, and when you're in dental school, or medical school, or, or anything like that, to where you kind of know that when you get out, you're going to make decent income, you don't really worry about the loans building up to too much. You know, like, kinda if you're going to be a professional athlete, well, you know, you don't really care too much about your loans or whatever. So that was my mindset going through training. But when all of this happened, it was just like a switch. I went from an abundant type mindset to one of extreme fear and scarcity. And it really took me a long time to get over that a long time. And so I kind of contracted and but luckily, long story short, I had a guy reach out to me that was another practitioner here that had gone through the same similar. He took me in, I was able to use space from him use his staff and he helped me network and luckily, he was able to get out of a lot of that debt. But I got to the point where it was are you get to the point where you're debt free or whatever, and it's like now what? Yeah, and, and it really took a snow skiing trip to really opened my eyes to you know, kind of what I was missing out on was kid cut out in front of me. I fell when I fell, instinctively put my hands down. Well, it bent my wrist back. Luckily, it wasn't anything major. But it started got me thinking, well, if I can't use my hands, how would I provide for my family?

Brian Briscoe 3:58

But I've had to risk surgeries for injuries just like that. But fortunately, you know, I'm not a you know, periodontist. So I don't have to use my hands like that. But

Unknown Speaker 4:08

yeah, but you know, like, it's like with anything in life. You don't think about getting sick or injured until what you get sick or injured. So I knew I had a problem. I had no clue what to do or where to go. So I started to educate myself. I'd already read some books about millionaires and successful people. And I learned two things. Number 190 percent or more of millionaires had real estate in their portfolio. I had zero not except for my house. And number two, the average millionaire had anywhere from three to nine streams of income. I was like most people had one but this still didn't help me because I didn't know what to do, but at least I had a path to go down. with two kids, I didn't want to spend more time and become a landlord. And I thought that's really the only way that you could get into real estate. So, luckily, I went to a meeting in Dallas, learn that there was all kinds of different ways that you could get into real estate. Besides being an active investor, whether that be getting into syndications, or investing in debt, or notes or whatever. And that eventually led me down the path to finding syndications, finding people to work with, and then starting a blog and now helping teach others about it too.

Brian Briscoe 5:39

Yeah, a lot of things that story of point out, I mean, I can imagine exactly where you were coming out of your dental school, and, you know, mountain of debt, thinking, Hey, we got everything covered, and I have this nice job set up. And then, you know, that's, that's just something that I think a lot of people don't look at things like that, that can happen, you know, it's like, hey, that's not gonna happen to me, I see that happen. Other people, I think one of the lightbulb moments for me was, you know, 2008, both my older brothers lost their job, my dad lost his job, and my two sisters lost their job, you know, and I was the only one in my family that didn't get a job. And that was one of the same moments for me where I thought, I need to, I need to do something different myself. So. So you found syndicator, you found a real estate, you found syndication? How did you? How did you proceed from there,

Unknown Speaker 6:27

I realized, I know a lot of a lot of different people are on this path. But especially for doctors, because we have such a hard target, have such a target on our chest, from people wanting to take advantage of us, like whether they're selling us insurance, or financial products, or whatever. So I wanted to start to share my story with other people. And just to give them the basic education that I think that they would need in order to potentially get into real estate, you know, for passive income. Right, I started a blog debt free Dr. calm about three, three and a half years ago. And, you know, it's kind of like an accountant, you know, you don't need to go to get an accounting degree, but you need to know the basics of accounting and taxes in order to find a good accountant and to ask good questions. So that's kind of what I want to do, I wanted to just to provide enough information that if somebody didn't want to work for 40 years, put money in a 401k, and hopefully have enough to retire, that they could do something different, to give them options. And I didn't realize at that point, just how bad that doctor burnout was getting to be. And not just doctors other really high stressed out professionals. So that was just another reason to keep putting this information out there to give them options, which is has been really cool to see from the stories that people share with me. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 8:02

yeah. And I would imagine that doctors are better apt to take that information from another doctor, as opposed from you know, some random person who's calling him trying to get into their pocketbooks. Right?

Unknown Speaker 8:15

Yeah, because I mean, when you go to my site, it's I'm not selling anything, it's just information. And people really connect with that. I mean, it's amazing people will sign up for my, on my website, I have a little investor group, and they'll give me like, all of this information about their, their finances and what they make and this and that, I don't even know them. It just from them going through and reading some of my articles and YouTube videos. So but also, to me, that just shows me that people are putting a lot of trust in me, and I want to, I want to be the most ethical type of person that I can because, you know, without your reputation, what do you have? Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 8:56

yeah. And that's something that I found to be true. You know, a lot of people talk about, I don't like the term, it's just a term, it's around the thought leadership platform. I mean, if you, you establish yourself as an expert through a blog through like setting up your YouTube channel through things like that, people are gonna immediately assume you're an expert. And from there, it's, you got to keep that reputation going. And I think you hit the nail on the head, you got to be extremely ethical with everything you do. Especially if you're bringing in money. I mean, our company's raised, you know, almost $15 million in investor capital. And that's an enormous responsibility and you got to treat that properly. But I mean, that said, you know, light like where you're going with that and I'm going to actually check out debt free doctor when we're done with this is your debt free Dr. Now when we're done with that, and anybody hear that, that's gonna be in the show notes as well. So click it, check it out, and see what he's got there. So got the blog going. You're starting to educate other people. How did you finally break into the multifamily space?

Unknown Speaker 9:55

It was at some of the different meetings and I was asking people who do you invest with, because I wanted to get started and you start hearing the same names come up of both who to invest with, but also who not to invest with, you know, the people to avoid. And it seemed like the majority of the people that they had recommended people invest when they were in the multifamily space, which, you know, made sense because I lived in apartments for like, 11 years during my training. So it's so funny God, I would always live in apartments, and you never think about, hey, somebody owns this, and all these people are paying them rent, you just, it's again, it's a mindset shift. Yeah. You know, I've gotten my kids to read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, for teens, and now we'll go down the interstate, and, you know, my 14 year old will will pass, you know, apartment complex, and how many 14 year olds will turn to you and go Dad, look at all the the number of people that are paying that person rent. Yeah. I mean, I'm 47 next week, and it took me this long to do it. He's 14. Yeah. So the sooner you can learn this and start teaching your kids, the better.

Brian Briscoe 11:10

My eight year old had a lightbulb moment, about a year ago, you know, I was explaining, you know why I was, you know, busy one night after work, like, you said, Hey, we're trying to buy this apartment complex is taking time, and I explained this issue, I explained exactly that to him. People pay us to live in these apartments, and eyes got big, and you're like, ah, Dad, you need to buy as many apartments as you can, then, you know, I'll just like, he gets it, you know, the light bulb went on, you know, he understands. But yeah, I mean, teaching your kids is big, too. So, you know, let's, let's talk specifically about one of the deals you you guys have done, you know, getting an apartment taken, closed. And if you didn't walk us through that, please,

Unknown Speaker 11:54

I tend to invest with with having two kids, I tend to invest in things that are try to be a little bit lower risk, but also they're not going to have quite as high return. And I'm okay with that. And with again, with living in an apartment apartments for so long. I get what, you know, now that I know, you know that situation. I like those types of deals, it's more of the, the ones that were built, like in the the mid to late 80s, maybe 90s. Class B, they're in a good area, their areas are growing, but they definitely can be updated. And every one I've lived in and looking back, they could have definitely been updated for sure. So I mean, I get it so that that's what I go for. And you know, typically it's a five year or four to five year hold period. value add? Can they go in and update it right off the bat and as you know, gradually raise the rent, to because people pay anything in life you pay based based on value, and if they see more value in it, then they're going to pay more or you can charge more then definitely want to get try to get the ones to where the apartments around that area there. They're already charging more. So if that's the case, and you know, that that you could do that, you know,

Brian Briscoe 13:19

yeah, yeah, always looking for the comps left and right to make sure you can you can hit the numbers that you're you're looking at but and something you said is important, and everybody has different, different criteria for investing. You said, You're okay with lower returns, just looking for the low risk returns. I think that's that's an important note, because, you know, I think a lot of people who are syndicating a lot of people who are in the deals are looking for the biggest number but you you bring risk in and you're set, you're saying you're okay with a lower return as long as it's more secure, lower risk. So I think that's vitally important because a lot of times when you're looking at those higher numbers on returns, they usually come with a slightly higher risk profile. But you know, glad glad you brought that up. So So one question I'd like to ask everybody and favorite question ever, is, what is your big burning? Why?

Unknown Speaker 14:11

Right now at this stage in the game, it's time with my kids with a 16 and 14 year old. I know that I probably have two summers with my oldest and probably four summers left with my youngest. And I just read this spring book, right here, Bill Perkins. For those that are watching your YouTube video die with zero. Okay. There again, at first I thought this was a book that my wife wrote to give to me, but that wasn't the case. And the guy was a hedge fund manager and he just puts things in perspectives about look, you know, we think about, we think we got it all figured out. We're gonna work our whole life and then retire in our 70s Enjoy life. Well, you know, I had a patient in the office this week I hadn't seen in five years. And he told me in December, he's getting ready to retire this year, the end of this year, and this past December, his wife of 25 years passed away from a medical error for during a surgery. And their hopes and dreams of retiring in Washington state that they've been talking about forever is gone. Right? So just like that, you never know what's going to happen. So right now enjoy it while your kids are young, or whatever moment you're at. It's, it's all about, you know, making those experiences. Yeah. You know, and that's, that's really important to me.

Brian Briscoe 15:45

Yeah, yeah, definitely live live live life now and not, you know, wait to live life later. I think that's, that's a good lesson learned. Unfortunately, I mean, unfortunate event that helped you, you know, see that, again, reaching, but definitely something we can all listen to. And I said, what's what's next for you?

Unknown Speaker 16:02

I am my goal, whether I get it or not, it's still a goal is to transition out of practice in five years or less. When I got out of training, I thought I was gonna have to work until I was 65, or 70. And finding real estate and passive income. Again, that's given me options. And then I would eventually like to do it full time to focus on continuing to educate doctors and other high income professionals, because I think it's just probably most people, yourself included, and probably Kevin, that's on the call included, too. We are where we are because of other people. And if as long as you can continue to learn and then share and giving back, I think that's really important.

Brian Briscoe 16:48

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, five, five years is plenty of lead time to build something up. I made the goal to get out of my w two job just over three years ago, and my retirements coming up in about two weeks. So awesome. So it's possible is the answer there, and I'm sure you'll you'll probably crush that. But well, that said, let's shift gears, and we're gonna bring Kevin on. So Kevin, welcome to the show. Thanks, Ryan. And, yeah, not a problem. Do us a favor, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Unknown Speaker 17:22

So I am from the island of Trinidad and Tobago, in the Caribbean. I am a chartered accountant by profession, and I have been involved in the corporate world for a number of years before you know you just had that block and that confusion as you know, this can be life and how it is supposed to be. So I started looking around for different things and what really is the meaning of life and started connecting with people from other people who introduced me to that, as they call it, the people Bible and started reading. You know, I started looking into getting involved in real estate from then, you know, yeah,

Brian Briscoe 18:06

yeah, I think the purple Bible is something that it is literally the most quoted book on this podcast. I think everybody that I've talked to it's it's been such a such a key factor in their growth and, and Dr. Jeff mentioned that he's given Rich Dad, Poor Dad for teens to his kids as well. And that's a book that changed a lot for me, too. So just such it's so interesting to see how much impact that one book has had on a lot of people. But so so born in Trinidad, Tobago, you're an accountant. Just curious. Where do you live now? And when did you What did you leave Trinidad Tobago? Actually, I still live in China to be all you do. I thought.

Unknown Speaker 18:46

Okay. No. So I, you know, try to do a lot of connecting and networking too. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 18:54

yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 18:55

that's my challenge.

Brian Briscoe 18:57

Yeah, I've seen you on tons and tons of meetups, you know, and for some reason, I assumed you were in the States, but Trinidad and Tobago. That's awesome. Are there any challenges for you, you know, trying to do real estate investing from from somewhere in the Caribbean?

Unknown Speaker 19:14

In terms of financing is probably the biggest challenge because not not being a US citizen. We don't get as favorable to as US citizens. You know, that is probably the major challenge with it. Okay. Interesting.

Unknown Speaker 19:33

Interesting. Well,

Brian Briscoe 19:34

let me ask you the same question, you know, favorite question that I asked, Jeff, what's your big burning? Why? I know you mentioned a little bit you kind of brushed up a bit a bit on that a little earlier. But if you could just talk directly to it. What's your big brain? Why?

Unknown Speaker 19:48

Yes. So well, ultimately, ultimately, it's financial freedom but broken down for me. It's having the ability to kind of do whatever my parents want to make them live a comfortable and exciting life however they want to. That is kind of like what I'm aiming for. And to continually do that, because I'm the only boy. So I have other siblings when they go. So I guess I have to carry the name. Yep. So the intention is to kind of do things in order to keep the reputation that they would like, and they will want to keep it as a legacy lesson.

Brian Briscoe 20:34

Keep the family legacy going. I like that. I like that. I assume your parents are also in Trinidad and Tobago with you?

Unknown Speaker 20:42

Yeah, so it just Well, my mom passed. So it's just my my father's so yeah. easier.

Brian Briscoe 20:49

All right, good. Keep that family name going. And I'm confident you're going to you know, do your parents proud. But that said, Kevin, we got Dr. Jeff, on the line here. What do you want to ask him?

Unknown Speaker 21:00

So I am interested in finding out a lot more of operating syndicated deals. And one of the questions that I have is, how do you manage your property managers so that they control expenses to an acceptable level or within the budget plan that y'all had?

Unknown Speaker 21:24

Well, I recently joined a group Nepali capital last year, as a GP, basically, doing what I've been doing the last few years, and that is Investor Relations. So I'm more on the education side of it. I do know that they personally they manage, they have a team, where they manage, they self manage all of their properties, they have both hotels, and apartments, majority of their investments are apartments, for the hotel side of the hospitality side, they use a group I believe aimbridge, which is probably the world's largest hotel Hospitality Management Company. But as far as for their apartments, they do it all themselves. So they have a, I guess, a team that goes in. So like, So say, for instance, they bought apartment, well, they'd like to keep the people there that want to stay there that are already working there, you know, that are established and have jobs. So what they do is they go in, and they train them not only for customer service, but also sort of their sort of their way, you know, kind of like, I guess, if if the Ritz Carlton were to buy another hotel somewhere, they would send in their team to go in to help educate and the quote Ritz Carlton way, so then that can be passed on. So it's almost like, anytime this group buys an apartment now, there are certain standards that they have to look for. And then I have somebody within that group that that's all they do is they manage the managers, so they're making sure all the numbers are correct. And all that, I do know that there's weekly calls that that they'll have, so if you had a like a weekly call with the manager of the property that you have, and you have a spreadsheet, and you go over all I mean, you're you're a numbers guy, you're an accountant. So that probably be pretty easy for you to stay on top of, you know, the manager. So that's what the majority of the ones that I have seen. What do you think, Brian?

Brian Briscoe 23:48

You know, I, we just closed on a property a couple of days ago, and, you know, what we're doing on transition? I mean, number one, we involve the property managers in the underwriting, you know, as soon as we get to a deal where we're ready to put a letter of intent in our property manager is looking over the numbers, and they're giving us kind of an independent, you know, proform an independent budget of what they think the property should, where they think they should operate it, you know, so so we're involving them early. And we're doing a lot of conversations with them, you know, prior to closing, and like Dr. Jeff said, you know, same thing is we're going in, we're looking at the existing staff who we're going to keep we're going to train into our culture. And then after that, we set budgets, you know, so even before we close, we have our budget items, and they have a lot of, we give them some wiggle room, but there are certain expenses, they have to cross you know, they have to come back to us and ask about, you know, if there's, if there's an expense that meets exceeds a certain threshold, they have to come talk to us and if they're getting close to the monthly or annual bar budget on a certain line item, you know, we have to give them approval. So really, really all it is it's communication more than anything else, and setting the limits before they become a problem. So communication and relationship building. Yeah, pretty much. Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 25:15

And one of the things you spoke about earlier, Dr. Jeff is risk and keeping risk at a low level with respect to your investments. So another question that I have is, is there some sort of? Well, again, back to that communication and relationship building? Is there some sort of upfront identification of these risks to your investors, so that they understand what they are getting involved in? before they actually do it?

Unknown Speaker 25:50

That's a good question. I think that if if you could set goals early on to what what you want to invest in, and then really either learn that real well learn that sector real? Well, you know, for me, it came, it became easy, because I've lived in those types of apartments for 10 plus years. So that's, you know, that wasn't that big of a deal. So for instance, about three years ago, a local contractor came up to me and said, Hey, Jeff, we're, we're developing this new concept over across the river and blah, blah, blah. And it sounded like a great deal. But again, I know what I know, and I didn't know anything about that, and it was a lot higher risk. And up just wasn't even a proven concept. And I didn't do it. And fortunately, it's actually doing really well for them. But again, it was it's risky. So, you know, figure it out what your niche is, and then just do everything you can to provide education to your investors about that. And again, that that will help them see you really as the expert in your area, for sure.

Brian Briscoe 27:02

Yeah, I think that's a great point, you know, stay in your wheelhouse, you know, there's a lot of things. I mean, just recently, you know, I got an internet discussion about Bitcoin for all things. I know nothing about Bitcoin. So to me, that's a huge risk, you know, I know a lot about multifamily. And so just staying with what I know, and what I know, well, I can manage a lot of that risk and reduce that risk, personally. And for the people who are investing with us.

Unknown Speaker 27:32

Right. Makes a lot of sense. increasing knowledge. reduce the risk. Absolutely. Yeah. So you also spoke about having plans, like your business plan, where you were starting probably exit four to five years made? Maybe it's a refinance or seal? Have you ever had an instance where one of the well, you weren't able to make the return that to investor that you settled to to investors?

Unknown Speaker 28:08

I'm not personally but the group that I've that I've joined? I've asked them that question, because I've had investors asked that question. And they have, they have had properties that have performed less than what was projected. Fortunately, they've never lost any money for any investors, but they have had some that have been lower. And I think really being upfront with people and keeping the communication open, and try not to hide anything, you know, whenever things are starting to kind of go south a little bit. I think most people understand that, you know, if you're honest with them, especially with what happened with COVID, that some of the early deals that I was personally in that were paying monthly, they switch to quarterly. And just because people didn't know what was going to go on, and, and those people were open with us, they were saying, look, we don't know what's going down. We're just going to hold the distributions for a while until we see what happens. And, and I was okay with that. And and I think that that would probably be my advice to, as soon as you start to see issues or whatever, just let people know and what you're doing to help, you know, counteract that.

Brian Briscoe 29:33

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of people who did underwriting pre COVID that's something that you couldn't, you know, in a million years forecast, right. So in a lot of cases, a lot of properties that were acquired pre COVID missed, missed their marks on a lot of things. So anyway, end of the day. Yeah, I agree with what Jeff said, you just got to communicate with investors, be honest with them, and just realize the bad news doesn't get better. You know? With age, you know, it's not like, if we don't tell them, they're eventually going to find out. And when they do find out, they're not going to be happy. So be open, be honest. And, you know, let people know.

Unknown Speaker 30:12

And and did you ever had a situation where they wanted to get their money back before the time that you originally plan?

Unknown Speaker 30:22

I personally haven't. But they've raised that question to me before they've gotten a deal. Hey, Jeff, what if, what if I were to invest and something happens, or in two years, it's a five year hold, I want to get my money out. And I said, Well, this probably isn't the type of investment for you. That when you put your money in whatever the whole time is, you need to think about, am I getting this money back for four or five, six years?

Brian Briscoe 30:49

Yeah, and there's, there's a lot of legal documentation that you have people sign. I mean, I don't know if people read every every word of it. But in the private placement memorandum, it's, it's upfront on page one, this is a long term, these are not marketable securities. You know, this is not something that you can just sell. So we are upfront with that as well. And part of it, especially if you're doing like a 506 b syndication, part of your lead in process is you want to make sure that that's not going to happen before people invest. So part of the educational process, because, you know, the last thing you want to do is, you know, if your minimum investments $25,000, you take somebody only $25,000, you know, and that's all the money they have, you know, you don't want to put them in a situation where they want to ask them for that money back. So I think a lot of that is on the syndicator, to make sure that someone's not going to be in that position after investing 2550 or $100,000. with you.

Unknown Speaker 31:50

Thanks for that. So can you tell me like probably one or two of the biggest challenges that you are facing? Right now, during your investing career?

Unknown Speaker 32:02

I would say have you started to do deals yourself? Or where are you at in the state of the game?

Unknown Speaker 32:11

So I have done smaller residential multifamily deals, I haven't done any commercial multifamily.

Unknown Speaker 32:18

Do you have? How do you get your investors? What do you have a blog? Are you just local people? Or how you do that?

Unknown Speaker 32:26

Yeah, I just connect phone calls network. And actually, sometimes when I travel, I just go across specifically to attend this was pre COVID attended, like some meetups. And that's how I connected with others and started like that.

Unknown Speaker 32:44

Well, from, from what I hear from other people that syndicate and Brian actually hit on it a little bit earlier, when he was asking me questions. He said, it must be easy, easier, being a doctor having other doctors come in to you. So I think for you it I mean, just from from what you're already doing, have you ever thought about maybe targeting other accountants?

Unknown Speaker 33:15

Yeah, so that is something that I thought about, but one of the critical factors is mindset. And because you they are involved in the profession, the way they are, it's a bit difficult to make that shift to explain to them that an individual is actually able to take their money and invest, bring them a return, because they are custom with either banks or hedge funds, who actually do those types of things. So you know, it's just something that I have to continue to work on, and eventually connect with somebody who will actually be willing to do

Unknown Speaker 34:00

it. Because it's a lot easier if you can figure out your niche or your target audience, it's a lot easier to grow your business. Because as soon as you can start growing it, you can do bigger deals. And for me, like I said, once I started, you know, I have my blog, and I had people coming in. And then once I started the passive investor circle, which is basically nothing more than people get to see the deals that I do. And if they want to invest alongside of me they can, once I did that, I mean it just really opened up the door to other opportunities, other possibilities, because probably what you're thinking about right now, you know, once once you find your niche and you go, you just it it's amazing how many doors behind you start to close and how many more will open in front of you that that you don't even think about and I've had so many emails Just today, from people reaching out to me to things that I could get involved with, I'm like, it's a, it's amazing that just these opportunities are here. Because if I wouldn't have started my blog done this, and this and this, none of this would have been possible, I would have to go, you know, behind this wall to treat patients. And that's it. But now the possibilities are endless. Right. accountants are probably like the worst people, to you know it, but the thing is, once you break into it, and other candidates all social proof once one of them does it, oh, yeah, Kevin helped me do this. And then they'll tell their friends, and then they'll tell you no. And that's just how you get started.

Brian Briscoe 35:48

Our accountant has invested passively in somewhere around 30 different deals, you know, so there are accountants out there that understand it. I think you just got to start. I mean, you can talk their language and you can rule right. Yeah, absolutely. Perfect example. Yeah. But

Unknown Speaker 36:06

if I were you, Kevin, I would look at everything Tom wheelwright does website, his podcasts, his blog, and don't try to reinvent the wheel. Do what he does.

Brian Briscoe 36:19

Yeah. Yeah. It's not something that that resonated with me that Dr. Jeff said was just, you know, look at your target audience. You know, he's had a lot of success with doctors, because he is a doctor, I've had a lot of success with military members and military veterans, because that's what I am. You know, so you, you've been able to go to accountants, you speak their language, you understand how their mind works, and what their, their their day to day challenges are. And you can speak to that a lot better than I can, or Jeff can, but you know, same way he can speak to doctors a lot better than the two of us can. So that that said, we are about out of time. So one last question for each of you, Dr. Jeff, you get to go first, how can listeners learn more about you,

Unknown Speaker 37:04

they could go to my website debt free, Dr. Calm, I've actually put together a free passive income guide so they can go to debt free forward slash free guide, and to learn about if they want to get started and how to start building multiple streams of income.

Brian Briscoe 37:25

And I've been browsing the website for a while. It's a really good website. I think it's got a lot of good products on there book recommendations, podcast recommendations, a lot of really good stuff on there. So well done on the website. Kevin, same questions for you. Same question for you. how can listeners learn more about you?

Unknown Speaker 37:44

So you can connect with me on LinkedIn or in on Instagram at Leon's nine, anywhere, dm feel free? I'm gonna be

Brian Briscoe 37:55

alright. Sounds good. And we'll put a link to that in the show notes. So thanks so much to the both of you for coming on the show today. Really appreciate your time and all the gold nuggets that had been dropped during this episode. So appreciate both of you. No, thanks. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Brian. Thanks to Jeff. Thank you for listening to the diamond apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favorite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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