Building Your Team with Abel Pacheco and Lee Yoder



Episode 60 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Abel Pacheco and Lee Yoder. Transcript by Otter.ai – please forgive any errors.



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Brian Briscoe 0:00

Well Lee we have Abel on the line here. What do you want to ask him?


Lee Yoder 0:02

How would you say suggest that I kind of get started with building out my team? Who are some people that I need on the team with me? And how do I get ready to actually be able to take down 100 unit apartment buildings


Abel Pacheco 0:11

are, where you're at with what you have, take account of who you are, and then network for everything else outside of that, and you're trying to figure out what are you missing? Right, right, what are the biggest components and then start to put this in a team. You know, when I'm looking for partners, I'm looking for a few different things right? professionalism, attentive to detail and when you make a promise you're gonna deliver, I want the same or better than I deliver.


Brian Briscoe 0:49

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian brisco. In this podcast, we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing, and this is journal entry number 61 of our Ask the Expert episodes, and today we have experienced investor Abel Pacheco with this and aspiring investor Lee Yoder joins us to talk about two of the fundamental issues in multifamily syndication. That's building a team and raising money. And now, the show. Welcome to the diamond apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe with four oaks capital. I'm very excited for today's show. It's one of our Ask the Expert episodes. We have two amazing people on the line with us today we got a guy with a tonne of experience in real estate Abel Pacheco and a very motivated energetic aspiring investor Lee Yoder. So first, let's introduce you to evil. He's been a real estate investor since 2008. He's currently invested in 865, doors 465 as a passive investor and 400. As an active member of the the GP 20 years of corporate entrepreneurial experience. He's verifiable, 10 times track record of sales from 5 million in 2010 to 57 million in 2016. He's also a multifamily syndication coach and a new loan originator. So that said, Abel, welcome to the show.


Abel Pacheco 2:17

Hey, Brian, thank you very much for having me. I sincerely appreciate it. I've been following you and some of the things you're doing to give back on LinkedIn and maybe some other platforms, your podcast, and you know, kudos to you giving back to the community and I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on as well, man.


Brian Briscoe 2:32

Hey, thank thank you, you know, this is this is third or fourth time now this is this is an interesting episode because we we've done podcast shares with podcasters with both of us. So you know, Abel, so let's start with that. Tell us a little bit about the podcast that you're going to be launching here probably end of this month, x by the time this this episode airs, it'll already be launched. So tell us a little bit about it.


Abel Pacheco 2:53

Yeah, started a new new podcast, multifamily focused, commercial real estate focused. It's called five talents podcast. So I'm big on motivation. I'm big on education. I'm faith driven as well. Some of that stuff comes up a little bit here and there. But just all around opportunity for other either new investors that are like, let's say high w two earners, high net worth individuals that have professional careers but don't want to leave their full time day job. They don't they don't want to do it, but realise they want to leverage real estate in a big way. Or, you know, for the part time kind of investor that trying to figure out how to go full time as a general partner. I think it's a great podcast for that. And Yep, thanks for highlighting.


Brian Briscoe 3:36

Yeah, and I'm excited for it to come out. But you know, like I said, I've talked to both you guys a couple of times in the last couple of weeks or so. And able, I've listened to you on on three or four different podcasts now. So, you know, I'm really excited to dive into your story. So speaking of let's just segue right into your story. Can you give us your background up until the point where you said I want to actively invest in apartments?


Abel Pacheco 4:02

Sure. I'm originally from Corpus Christi, Texas, so I grew up in a kind of beach town. I then moved to San Antonio, I went to UTSA got a general business degree. So half of my life near the beach, half of my life, San Antonio, Texas. So the Alamo familiar with the Riverwalk, and now I'm married for a little over 12 years ish. Hopefully my wife doesn't pick me on that one. And I have a two and a half year old and a one year old a boy and a girl just super happy to be a dad now. And you know, I've been as you mentioned, an IT sales professional, an executive, a strategic partnership director, senior data, data data in the IT industry, and so always been on the sales side always worked at you know, customers like Bank of America and chase and Red Bull and, you know, some big fortune 100 500 names. And also that way I've been investing in real estate, so I've been doing real estate for 12 years. And as my quotas got bigger, I realised my pay was definitely getting better. But if I ever stopped working, then there would be no more income that, you know, led to me trying to put together a passive portfolio. I realise single family wasn't very passive. I got about I did, it took me 10 years to do eight doors. And then in multifamily I went in two years, we went to about 800 plus doors. Yeah. So eight to 800 in a relatively short period of time. And that's how I started leveraging multifamily. So that's kind of a brief brief synopsis there.


Brian Briscoe 5:38

Yeah. You know, I love what you pointed out. I mean, just just the ability to scale with multifamily is is a lot more, you know, and, like a lot of people, I started with single family houses as well, you know, I'm active duty military. And, yeah, my plan was, every time I move, I pick up another house. And without doing the math, you know, I think, you know, 15 years ago, when I started the process, I thought, Man, by the time I hit my 20 year mark, and I'm ready to retire, I'll be set for life, you know, and five and five single family homes doesn't do that for you, you know, so imagine you were in the same position with eight. And you're just like, wow, yeah, I mean, it's nice. But so you're, you're passively invested in, you're actively invested, you got about 400 units on each side. What came first passive investing or active investing,


Abel Pacheco 6:27

passive. So really realising the same thing that you did in single family, I started learning as much as I could, I signed up for multiple education courses, probably like five or six total, in the last two years, drop too much coin juggle too many cities did all the seminars and stuff. But that was the impetus for me to say, I want to get going, I don't think I'm going to be a general partner right off the bat, I need to put my money in it. And I actually didn't think I was going to be a general partner, I just thought I was going to continue down the same path I was headed, but give my money to an expert, somebody that was an operator and an expert in their market. So I, I put my money there passively. And I invested once twice, my wife got in on another deal, a third deal. And we did that through our four old 401k. left a job came available. I did it through a self directed IRA. And that came first.


Brian Briscoe 7:19

Nice, okay, now now what? What prompted you to transition to being a, you know, from the LP side of the fence, the GP side of the fence?


Abel Pacheco 7:26

Yeah, it was a matter of like the education that I was taking, and mentorship and coaching, I realised that the time, effort and energy that I was putting in single family, if I put the same time, effort and energy that I could go do general, I could be a general partner on a multifamily syndication. The main aha moment was the fact that as I was a passive investor, I realised that one person I was investing with wasn't really one person, he was a team, a big team, there was a lot of experts in the deal, making sure the deal was working well. And I go, man, I don't have to run the whole thing. I just have to provide my value and bring up bring other experts in and we can go do the deal together. So that was that was kind of the switch in my head. That was it. Yeah, you know, and


Brian Briscoe 8:13

I've said this a lot of time, a lot of times, and this quote did not originate with me. I mean, multifamily is a team sport, you know, it's, it's something where, you know, I don't know where the line in the sand is. But you know, you do a couple single family, no problem, you can do that by yourself, you know, a four Plex, you can probably do by yourself a 10 unit, you can probably do that by yourself. But there there comes a line somewhere where you've got to go with a team in order to be able to get that get to that next level. So 100% Yeah, so yeah, I mean, you recognise that you saw, okay, I can bring value. And you know, you jumped in with both feet, and now you're you say 880 units. Yeah. Okay. It's


Abel Pacheco 8:51

65 and 65, you know, passive and then actively, we've got a couple deals and then have have a couple more under contract right now.


Brian Briscoe 9:01

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. And, and you are currently on a due diligence trip right now. So that's showing up Texas, South Texas time right now. You guys are definitely growing. So we're good. So let's, let's talk a little bit. You kind of brushed up on this subject, but what is your big burning? Why your motivation for for doing this?


Abel Pacheco 9:19

It's it's really always been about creating financial freedom, passive income, so that I can spend time with my little ones as they grow up and spend more time with them. You know, I realise, yeah, I have to put in a lot of time, effort and energy today, still, but it's more flexible. I can control my schedule. I'm controlling my schedule, as opposed to my schedule controlling me. So you know, little one got sick the other day, and mom is asking me, Hey, can you know can you go take baby to the doctor and, you know, facemask and do all that stuff. And I'm like, Yeah, I can. I can actually move my schedule around. No problem and without the worry, or the fear of, you know, everyone looking bad down on me whatever it was to say, Oh, it was not here, which was as a senior senior leader, senior director, I prided myself on like being there before people would come in and after, you know, work through lunch and 13 years in the IT industry. So, anyways, that was kind of like, you know, that that was the burning why five time with a family? You


Brian Briscoe 10:25

know, that's something that really resonates with me. I think that's, that's part of my big burning. Why active duty military? I absolutely do not control my work schedule. I have had, you know, short notice deployments, just, you know why he was nervous, by the way? Yeah, I mean, walk into the boss's office, and he's like, hey, I need you to go. Okay, sir. When? Monday? Yeah, it's Friday afternoon. Yeah, I know, I know, you can you can handle it, you know? Okay, you know, there goes my weekend, you know. So, you know, I've had several instances like that. So, you know, I really, really appreciate what you said, you know, it's all about spending time with with the little ones, your two and a half and one year old are going to appreciate hopefully, they appreciate that later on finding that appreciation doesn't come until you know, their mid 20s. You know, but we'll find out. But, yeah,


Abel Pacheco 11:16

I'm enjoying the time that my coffee breaks, and my lunch breaks. And especially now like we're walking from the house. I mean, I'm there. So and my wife was blessed to be to be able to stay at home, as well. So yeah, it's good. All right,


Brian Briscoe 11:28

so let's do this. Now, let's talk about a brief history of one of the deals you've done, you know, just kind of give us an overview, or you can just give an overview of what you're looking for, in general.


Abel Pacheco 11:38

Yeah, yeah. So I'll give you like, the first deal that I did is a little over 120 doors, a little over, you know, 7 million bucks issue was a value add is a property that was I would say, like a sea property, I think it was 70s, you know, vintage, and solid bone solid structure. And in a pretty nice, like, B ish neighbourhood, good High School, good debt, you know, median income, good area of town. And, you know, we acquired that property, there's those three partners, partnered with one individual pretty much, you know, on the majority of my San Antonio deals, I grew up with him, I worked with him at the it job and, and he's had a lot of success. So I kind of followed with him. And I think we had one other general partner that you know, really found under road kind of analyse the deal, brought it to our team, and, you know, was was was blessed to be, you know, one of the general partner so it's kind of like my does my first deal that I'm describing, right, and really, you know, riding shotgun learning through the process, trying to stay boots on the ground, you know, looking through the legal docs, try and provide my value where I can property management, you know, asset management is, are provided by professional property managers. Same with asset management. Now, this stuff is vertically integrated. My big partner is now much bigger years later, so it was a Yeah, we, we did a value add on it, interior unit up upgrades, basic floor to tone, paint fixtures, surface resurface countertops, and new signage, branding landscaping on the outside, just fix the pool, fix some areas. And, you know, we're, we're thankfully right now during COVID, you know, hitting our projections hitting our numbers, our collections are very strong, relatively compared to everything else, I think we've had, you know, even after the system has kind of worn off, I think there's just, you know, one or two individuals that, you know, just in a rough spot, and even then still working through it. So, it's good, good property and excited. So that was a, that was my first deal. That's, that's


Brian Briscoe 13:37

amazing. I mean, $7 million, is a nice first deal. And it sounds like your renovation touch just about every aspect of that. Yeah. I mean, you said exteriors, you know, pools, interiors, you know, kitchens, everything else. Was there any part of the apartment complex that looks exactly the same as it did? Or you bought it?


Abel Pacheco 13:54

Yeah, most of the, all the, all the brick walls, all the exterior outside of it. You know, that's kind of like, you know, we just get, you know, you don't get any return with it. The interior units are probably the biggest area of opportunity. But landscaping in the front leasing office, and, you know, make sure the pool pool furniture, there was a leak, like in the in the pool or something that that happened in our property manager, you know, nailed it down, took care of it and helped us with that. And, and then, but, yeah, just the signage is, you know, like I said, but other than, you know, the building itself. I don't think we touched the break. We didn't we didn't do that trims and doors, stuff like that. But, yeah,


Brian Briscoe 14:33

yeah. What was your overall renovation budget on that?


Abel Pacheco 14:36

I can't even remember at this point. I think we probably use like, probably like 5k a door. It's kind of I see a lot of the deals that were working 40 505k a door. So five grand times 100 something five or 600 grand. Something there. Yeah.


Brian Briscoe 14:53

Yeah. Nice. Nice. So what's next for you?


Abel Pacheco 14:57

So we have a couple of deals under contract working on right now. And Like I said, due diligence and, and trying to look for the next opportunity, my 8020 rule, I tell, you know, people that asked me, What do you actually do, right? And I said, what I do on a daily basis, I'm I'm doing two things, the 8020, which is 80% of your results come from these 20% of activities. And I'm really looking for new investors, new partners that want to go do a deal together want to partner up, and the other side of it is find a new deal that works so that I can have our investors come into that deal. So that's, that's kind of like the 8020. And that's what I try to spend most of my time. And so in doing so lots of new podcast. Yeah, we talked about wrote a passive investing book that's on my website, and was kind of what I'm doing right now.


Brian Briscoe 15:45

Yeah, I think that's key, you know, focus on the things that bring the most returns, you know, and finding, finding deals and finding money and finding new building your team are probably the three. I've said it many times before. Those are the three things that people need to focus on, you know, and you hit those nice sequential eight, you know, sounds like you were following. Not going to call it my model, because I'm not the one that developed it. But that's, that's really the good road plan right there. You know, you build your team, you look for deals, you look for money, and everything else is secondary to those. Yeah, so Yep. Yeah. All right. Well, let's bring in our next guest. We got Lee Yoder on the line with us. He's a he was a practising physical therapist converted into a real estate investor where he formed his company, threefold real estate investing. And he's now now as a portfolio that includes some small multifamily assets. He also hosts an exciting podcast called three fold real estate investing, same name as his company, which focuses on multifamily real estate investing, while also focusing on pursuing better relationships with family and a better walk with Christ. So that said, Lee Yoder, welcome to the show.


Lee Yoder 16:48

Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. I'm really excited to be here with you enable,


Brian Briscoe 16:51

yeah, this is this is fun. This is fun. I mean, I don't remember who it was after we shot a recording or not. But I think this is the first time where, you know, I've been on both the opposite end of the calls podcasts now prior to bringing you guys on mine, so you're a great guest. Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate that. You. I can't I can't wait for your launch able. I mean, you've got a tonne of you know, I've seen your speaker lineup already. I can't wait for it. So and leasing. You know, you're just been out for a while now. Right?


Lee Yoder 17:19

Yeah, a few months. your minds? You know, just getting on?


Brian Briscoe 17:22

Yep. So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about the podcast. And after that we can roll right into your background?


Lee Yoder 17:29

Yeah, sure. Because they're kind of intertwined. I mean, my podcast is the idea behind my podcast is to educate people a lot of like, what Abel was saying, just educate people on on maybe a different path, whether they want to pursue that themselves, or maybe they want to partner with us, or, you know, you, Brian, you able, there's so many good syndicators out there. So, you know, people that are that are in the rat race, they're, they're trading their time for money. And, and maybe, maybe they're happy with that, maybe they'd like to just have a little better retirement, maybe retire a little bit earlier, maybe be able to step back a little bit, maybe not, maybe be able to just have one income instead of two income. So one parent gets to stay home. You know, my wife's blessed to stay home, just like you said, able, so yeah, just, you know, my podcast is just talking about that. So, you know, we focus on multifamily real estate, and that's what I'm focused on, just like you guys, but then, you know, with my guests, I dig into Well, how has multifamily real estate investing positively affected your family? Your faith, I'm a Christ follower, you know, just like you guys, but some people aren't. And some of my guests aren't, but that they talk about maybe other things in their life that, you know, the real estate has benefit, because that's the ideas, hey, it's gonna make you some good money, ideally, but but why would why are we doing that? Well, it's most likely almost for everybody to get more time with family pursuing things of your faith or other things. So yeah, that's basically what we hit on with our Nice,


Brian Briscoe 18:48

nice, nice. So So that said, you know, just for everyone else, you know, give this podcast a check threefold real estate investing. It's on iTunes or Apple podcasts. And just so you know, while you're explaining I just gave you a five star rating and review as well do that for us as your sponsors, too, but nice.


Lee Yoder 19:06

I'm sure Brian just got on there and said, Yeah, he had this great guest on named Brian Chuck.


Brian Briscoe 19:10

Yeah, I know. Right. Yeah. You know, I my apple podcast handles actually my name. So he that's kind of a dead giveaway. But there Yeah. So let's roll into your background right. Now. Tell us a little bit about, you know, where you come from kind of a little deeper than what you just explained.


Lee Yoder 19:25

Yeah. So my background is I actually still am a practising physical therapist, I'm still working to get out and get it full time into into real estate, hence why you know, on the aspiring investor behind April, yet, he's already where I want to be. So I still have a full time job and physical therapy. When I started out, I was doing outpatient physical therapy, where you're in a clinic and it's kind of some later hours. So my wife and I were starting our young family, I looked for maybe a different setting of physical therapy where I can have more time at home, little more flexibility. So I got into home health, physical therapy, where I got to make my own schedule. Now I'm going into people's homes, so it's just between me and my patient. Making the schedule. So had a lot of flexibility actually wasn't working that many hours, probably less than 40 hours a week, which my wife loved was great for the family. So my wife was like, let's just do this forever, I was bored out of my mind, I am not fulfilled, not challenged. So for me, it was like this can't last. So the company I was with was actually I didn't really even know it at the time, but they were actually a staffing company. So they brought me on, and I really started helping them build out their Home Health Division, on the staffing side for other companies, but also all the therapists that we had in house. So I got to the point where I was in the office 100% and doing no physical therapy. And you know, when you come out of college, you don't really know. I mean, a lot of people I didn't really know what I like, but I learned with this company pretty quickly that I really liked business. I like building a business building this division. I like, I love numbers, I've always loved math. I like making the numbers work out, hey, where should we put our money? Where should we grow. So I got into doing that and you know, left the physical therapy space and was loving it. So now I'm really fulfilled, really challenged. I'm really happy on the work front. And now I have no time at home. So my wife and my family are suffering because of this. So kind of saw both ends, right? Both sides were, you know, had plenty of time, wife's happy, I'm bored and unfulfilled. And then now I'm fulfilled and really challenged and wife and family are suffering. So talking with a colleague who was having some of the same feelings like, hey, he was a guy that works very closely with me now he's partnering with me in the real estate syndication space, apartment syndication, but he was kind of feeling some of the same things like hey, we're having a lot of fun building this division together, man, I'm never home. And, you know, we're starting our family too. So gave me a book, a real estate book. It was kind of a random book, but then, you know, led me to Rich Dad, Poor Dad got into some others, and started to think, Okay, well, what if I left this and I go back to home health physical therapy, so I'm going to be bored, but I'm gonna have a lot of time but on the side, I'll start my real estate side hustle. So that's exactly what I did four years ago left, I'm actually I feel like I kind of took a year off so I'm still working full time but I'm doing nothing else. So now via the point so flip the house got into real estate and just in the past year then acquired those three multifamily properties that I talked about just small multi families. I just have 34 units between two buildings or three buildings. But now I'm really looking to scale up and get into the bigger stuff the apartment syndication now.


Brian Briscoe 22:12

Yeah, that's a very respectable number mean 3434 units is is pretty solid for someone working this part time. So good. Anya, congratulations on that. And you once again, you touched on this a little bit as well, let's, let's give give me a nutshell your big burning why, you know, what's, what's the big motivation behind doing this?


Lee Yoder 22:31

Yeah, I really like to work I really enjoy working, but I want to be able to control it a little bit more. So I want to be able to work I get up really early in the morning, and I want to be able to work in the morning and get that done when the kids aren't awake. So I'm able to work you know, kind of scratch that itch, be able to do that but not lose time with with my family, when they work for yourself, you can do stuff like that, I want to be able to take time off like Ava was saying you know, my wife needs me and be able to do that so wanted to be able to control my time also wanted to do something that I was passionate about. So that was a big part of it for me I mean, I could have I could just be doing home health physical therapy and make a nice income and save our money and kind of go that route and work until I'm 65 and probably have enough saved up for a nice retirement but and get to spend time with my family but then I would just not be living a fulfilled life. I mean, God didn't create me to do a job like that he did create some people to do that and they'd be very happy with that. But for me he created me to do something that really challenges me and to build something in real estate is where I'm able to do that.


Brian Briscoe 23:32

Well Lee we have Abel on the line here What do you want to ask him?


Lee Yoder 23:36

Yeah, so


where I'm at in my journey is like like you guys kind of both mentioned that you can do the single family house stuff yourself you can do small multifamily so I've I mean I have some some money partners in the deal. But the three buildings I bought so far I've basically done by myself finding video underwriting the deal going through everything I had a mentor that really helped me get started he was just kind of coaching me along the way. But so now I'm going to scale and I definitely realise I cannot buy a 100 unit apartment building by myself. So my question for Abel would be how would you say suggest that I kind of get started with with building out my team? Who are some people that I need on the team with me and how do I get ready to actually be able to take down 100 unit apartment building?


Abel Pacheco 24:13

Got it So hey, I and I can definitely help you with the team side of it on the professional side and also the commercial real estate side I think I've prided myself on on building great ones. But real quick three fold, three fold in your face. That's awesome. So I I don't think it was planned Brian But Mark company has five talents, which is Matthew 25 and 14, the parable of the five talents or the Masters in servants that hey, here are your talents, physical denari, money, whatever. And in some period of time, he came back and said, Hey, what do you do with that money? What do you do with it? And he said, Well, I doubled it. Next guy said the same thing. The last one that buried in the ground, he said, Well, I buried it in the ground and I didn't want to lose the money. So I put it here. Here's your one talent back and you know, he goes hey man, you later serving you could have at least given to the moneylender. That parable of well done my good and faithful servant. I'm glad we're partnering up together on this.


Brian Briscoe 25:09

I totally agree. It's a good parable just it shows the value of work as well, you know, you have to work in, in life and you have to, you know, whatever you're blessed with to begin with, whether it's one talent, you know, three talents, or five talents, talents, whatever the numbers are, but you have to work to be able to improve your station. Anyway. Able back you question? Yeah, yeah.


Abel Pacheco 25:30

So on that on the team side, you definitely, you know, this is applies anybody in the professional or commercial real estate world, I would really start with taking account of who's around you today, you have an inner circle of influence, an outer circle of influence, and you and your story, your you as a person, as an individual, you have people around you today, that are technically your inner circle of influence people. And you know, whether they're partnering with you or not, I think that's not really the point. The point is to ask the people that are closest to you, when you're asking them what, what are my biggest strengths, character traits? What do you see of me, I have a paradigm of who I am. But you know, if you could describe me, how would you describe me, right? And so really seeing from their eyes, take account of who you are, get your inner circle of influence, and then start to put this in a team for the commercial real estate side? It's like, Well, are you an outer extrovert or an introvert? Are you an Excel underwriter analysis? Are you an investor relations person? Are you a detail oriented person that can keep track of insurance deductibles, paperwork, k one, you know, investor, you know that that technical part of the details that are needed on the paperwork, ppm docs, all that stuff? Or no, you kind of like boots on the ground? I like, you know, you said, you kind of did those 34 units, I immediately pictured you as the guy that likes to get his hands dirty into the projects. I don't know if that is, are you or not definitely part of it? Yeah. Okay. So you're like, Okay, well, man, that's your expertise, you already have, you know, a lot of it. So you kind of keep expanding on it. And that you're, you're trying to figure out, what are you missing? Right, right, what are the biggest components, and so you take a little bit of knowledge from people that know you, you start networking like crazy, you probably have people in your circle today, in your investor pool, you know, if you said you have some money there, you know, there may be somebody that can immediately have, you know, they have capital, they have professional background, they are detail oriented, they are accountants, they are, you know, that kind of thing. So start where you're at, with what you have, and then network for everything else outside of that. And, you know, when I'm looking for partners, I'm looking for a few different things, right? your professionalism, your, you know, time, attentive to detail time, your delivery of, you know, you when you when you make a promise you're gonna deliver. And those things that it takes to, you know, have a syndication, it's a, it's a seven or $10 million company, it's not a property we're buying. It's a business we're buying. So if you're an executive of a $10 million business, and you're the chief Operations Officer, the CEO, man, when you say you're going to do something, you better do something, and you're going to be on time. And I want to see your communication level, I want to see when he's talking to investors in on paper in writing, my email communication, my offering memorandum, you know, the things that I'm doing, like, I want the same or better than I deliver. And when I, in my professional career, I always made it a point or I tried to anyways, if you're one of my sales guys that just happen to watch this podcast, you know, this, I had a 60 person team, that kind of my biggest, you know, stretch was, we took a $5 million a year business, we grew it to 12 million, and then 25 million, and then 40 million, and I left at $57 million a year of new acquisitions, right? And so, I took the 60 person who I grew up, you know, seven person team, you know, and then we kept hiring kept growing crazy. A lot of my managers when I left as a director, were my sales guys that I hired, that were the top performing guys on my team, and I helped promote them up. And so the reason I say all that is because I wanted people around me that are way better than I am. I always look for people that are smarter, are brighter or hunger, whatever the case, you know, whatever, whatever the case is better than me. Because man if I can be a great person that brings others that are better than me. We're gonna we're gonna crush it, you know? And that's kind of that's kind of the mindset, right? I never wanted to be the smartest guy in the room. And I've been deemed in an interview for saying that, which is kind of funny. I was interviewing for a VP sales role, or like a director, they're like, I need the smartest guy.


Brian Briscoe 30:15

be the smartest guy.


Abel Pacheco 30:16

Man, I'm sorry, I'm not that guy. So, but anyways, that's how I look at teams. You know,


Brian Briscoe 30:23

I remember an old story, you know, attributed to Henry Ford, you know, and he claimed that he could answer any question within a very short amount of time. And, you know, some other, you know, really smart professionals decided to take him up on it. And I don't know if you guys heard the story before, but he comes in, he comes into the office and the, you know, he gets asked a couple technical questions, and he gets on his, you know, speakerphone to his assistant, and he's like, Hey, can you go get you know, and gives a name out, you know, and a couple minutes later, you know, this isn't shows back up to the room with another person. And that person answers the question. And I mean, it's just a great story. The the guy who took on the challenge accused him of cheating. He's like, I said, I can answer your question. Yeah, I did. I didn't say, you know, I never said anything that I had to know the I know, all the answers. I just said, I can answer anybody's questions. And he did it by surrounding himself with good smart people. So yeah, so yeah, Lee. So Moral of the story, know what you lack and find somebody who can fill the gap?


Lee Yoder 31:26

Yeah, that's great advice. And that is, that is something I've been working on, on a really good talk where I was kind of talking about that. So I did take inventory. And I did actually ask you a couple people. And that was very helpful. I think that's great advice for anybody that you gave, they're able to find out. Yeah, what am I really good at? And people that have worked with you in the past, I think can help you with that. Hey, here's something I know you're really good at. But you're not so good at this. And I feel like lions are good at telling you where you're weak. Yes. Thank you, Lord. Yeah. No, yeah. Another Another question I have Abel is, as you get into these properties, kind of more on the investor side. So what what's worked really well for you on bringing in investors, attracting investors to invest with us specifically, how are you finding him? Because I feel like a big part of it. If I could reach people and teach people about it, I think there's a lot of people out there that don't even know this is an option. That would go Yeah, that sounds really good. Yeah, I'd like to put my money in that. So how do you how do you reach those people? And then, you know, how do you sell them on the I feel like the hardest part is actually regional? Because I think selling, I feel like selling people on multifamily is easy, because, you know, I believe in it so much. But how are you rejecting?


Abel Pacheco 32:32

I got that advice from from one of my mentors, and I'm a sales guy. I've been a sales guy forever. And he goes, I know who you are at the inventory. He goes, what I need you to do is turn off your sales hat. Because I don't ever want you to sell somebody. What I want you to do is show people there's an opportunity, and if they're interested, they're going to tell you. And so that was you know that at least for me, right? Because, you know, for any sales guy, that's where my head was at sell somebody. But he's like, No, no, don't. And I that's been really key for me. So that's my, as I explained all this stuff, I'm going to kind of give you some ideas, but that's my frame of reference. It's never selling somebody more of just, man, are you interested in this opportunity? Because if you are, let me know, and I can give you some education for it. I can walk you through my path. I there's power in who you are, in what you do, and the people you know, today. And that's where you absolutely 100% need to start your man of faith, your family man, you're you know, a professional in in the health, you know, physician, physician area, kind of that type of thing. You need to capitalise on all of those things, which I know you're doing with the platform, right. There's here's what I did tactically to raise several million dollars now, in the first couple of years. And the way I did this was first thing I did was I grabbed literally grabbed an Excel and I listed everyone that I knew I did not and did not list. People that I thought would invest. I listed everyone that I know. And I know this exercise because I did it when I worked at Cutco. I sold knives and I did in home presentations. And this is what they asked me to do when I was like 21. And so I was like, Oh, I know what to do. Create a list everybody you know, download your phone, take all your contacts in your apps, start there. And you do the reason you don't limit yourself to who you think would be interested in investing is because you're going to list people like Uncle Joe suit, you know, Aunt Susie, and Aunt Susie is not an investor and you know this, but by putting her on the list, you may through the years realise Oh, you know what? And Susie brought you know, introduced me to a friend at some party one time and that is a potential Real Estate Investment Group. And that's why you got to list everybody you know, first, then go back and I literally went back and qualified and I'm like, Who do I think would be interested in? Right? And here's a nugget for like today, right? The people that I thought were interested was funny, because some of them like, No, I'm not interested in real estate investing whatsoever by Okay. And then some people on the flip side that I did not think would be interested, where are some of my most frequent investors on my deals? Right. So it goes either way could work for you. The nugget that I was gonna tell you though, is, you know, the single family real estate market today is doing pretty well as we're recording this September 2020, at least in my neck of the woods. The mortgage brokers and realtors are cranking away, they're selling single family houses, and it's getting done, interest rates are lower, people were buying like crazy. Every one of them is a real estate professional, by definition on the IRS, and they can be taken advantage of some of the losses from the cost segregation study accelerated depreciation, that a normal w two employee without the designation of real estate professional can't take all of those losses. So I mean, those people, when you go through your network, you're like, I need to figure out who's in real estate today. Not in multifamily. But in single family, because if they're professional, they could they could do that. And then also, you know, guys like me and you what we're working up until this year, I was working, and then wife's at home, right? Well, if she has some time, she should be the real estate professional, you know, get get, put the books in her hand, get her material participation, have her do the flip, instead of you doing a single family flip. And now she's the real estate professional, that can take a good amount of those losses. So that people like us, family, faith, married couple, you know, and you and you're literally qualifying people down the list. So there's a lot of power starting with you where you are, especially if you're a man of integrity of character, people know that they've known you for years, my first deal, I didn't invest in underwriting or exit cap rate or entry cap rate, or any of that stuff, you know, I really just didn't. And so what I did was I invested with somebody that I knew, liked and trusted. And then he said, he's a good deal. So you got to remember that, or at least that's how I remember it is, as a passive investor, I've put in all of my 401k money to that point. So all my life savings, and my retirement funds. I invested it based off trust. Now it's different because I have more education, and I can look at the deal numbers and all that stuff. Right. But in the beginning, that's what it was. So you have people on your network today that don't know that there's amazing opportunities don't know about syndication, you're 100%. Right. Your platform, the podcast, keep going. Don't stop. Keep it going out there. I was almost hesitant to start my own because I go, everyone's got a multifamily podcast. Oh, shoot. Everyone in our network of all the other multifamily commercial real estate investors. They're starting one. But my network for 13 years was an IT IT hosting. And they're probably not connected to a lot of syndicators not breakers. Yeah.


Brian Briscoe 38:22

Maybe the first first podcast on multifamily they ever hear. So


Abel Pacheco 38:25

egg 100%. So that platform, keep it going, keep it out there, do your social thing. And then I would really look for systems if you're raising capital. So we've talked about it, you know, you first internally, we've talked about your platform, your platform now should have some kind of lead capture some kind of opportunity to create a listener to turn into a name and an email so that you can kind of keep this constant contact with them. So if you don't know, the 20 questions, a passive investor should ask every general partner, you know, download here, the, you know, the 10 things you should look for when you're doing deals, just make something up, put it together, you've got a lot of expertise today on the 34 units. And then that's your lead capture, record the intro, you know, in the outro and blast that out every single time on all of your things, you have to have a call to action, put that on your podcast, you're going to grab those and then stay in contact with those people develop the relationship so that you can do your reg D five or six B, you know investments, keep in contact, log them all that stuff. And your deals today, you've got some experience. I would absolutely use your deals when I was a passive investor. I use my passive investment as the tool to explain the syndication. And I said here's how it works. Here's how we do it. And I explain how I invested my money passively. You can explain how you went and bought the deal and analyse it and you create your your offering your investment summary or offer offering memorandum branded logo. Thank dollars and your next deal, you know the past 123 deals. And your next one looks exactly the same branding, same colours, same performance, same structure, and they're used to it, they're comfortable to it a comfortable with it. And you know, the people you show it to today may not invest for a year, I've had people that didn't invest for like my first 1234. And now the fifth one, they're like, Hey, I'm seeing you, I think you're gonna stick with this


Brian Briscoe 40:26

money, right? Yeah, we've had a couple like that, too. You know, it's, it's not the first one, not the second one, but maybe three, four or five that are three, four, and five, if you if you're lucky. So, so there you go. There's, uh, I don't want to ramble on too much. But that's kind of, you know, the advice. Great advice. All right. We're running out of time, right. Now, one final question for both of you. how can listeners get in touch with you as you go first,


Abel Pacheco 40:51

you can reach out to me on my website, it's probably the easiest way. Five, t, c, r e.com. Five TCR. calm. And I did mention the book we did have, do have a 65 page guide a resource. It's the passive investing guide that I used to invest you know, into $93 million of real estate so you guys are interested go to that. You'll find it on my on my website five tcrs calm and I look forward to


Brian Briscoe 41:19

talking to you guys. Alright, so check out his passive investing guide five t five talents commercial real estate five tcrs. calm. Lee, same question for you. How can people get ahold of you?


Lee Yoder 41:30

Yeah, absolutely. Jump on the website, three fold, spell that out. Three, fold our ei.com. And then the email is very similar info at three fold Rei calm. So jump on the website, we do have you know where you can fill something out on they're still working on the lead magnet, I got to take your advice are able to finish that up. So by the time this airs, I will have a lead. I guess I can tell you exactly what's going to be because I have a couple different ideas of what I want to do there. But I'll have a lead magnet there. So jump on, get that whatever that ends up being it's going to be awesome.


Brian Briscoe 42:05

Yeah. Yeah, Lee is going to have this awesome, free bonus gift for anybody that goes to his website. All right. It is so awesome that I can't even tell you what it is right now. All right. Yeah. It's top secret. Awesome. Yes. Right. Yeah, we. Yeah, we know what it is. But we Yeah, you just have to wait. Alright. Hey, thanks. Thanks for coming on the show. Guys. I appreciate your time. You know, and I appreciate the other times. We've been on phone with each other in the last couple of weeks, and look forward to continuing the relationship.


Lee Yoder 42:41

Yeah, I appreciate you. I've been really blessed by this time. Thank you, April. Thanks, Brian.


Abel Pacheco 42:45

Hey, man, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And definitely not the the quote unquote, expert that Brian mentioned. But I've learned a lot and I'm happy to share everything I've learned. Yeah. Appreciate it.


Brian Briscoe 42:56

All right. Thanks. Thanks again, guys. And that's a wrap for this episode.


Thank you for listening to the divergent apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.


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