Borrowing Experience with Devin Elder and Jared Asch

Episode 98 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Devin Elder and Jared Asch, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

That said, Jared, we got Devin in the line. What do you want to ask him?

Jared Asch 0:03

I have this large network of high income high net worth individuals. How do you best recommend that I approached them about this new venture that I'm taking on.

Devin Elder 0:12

If you don't have a monthly newsletter, just start one. But that shows consistency to folks. And it gives you a way very casually. To be in front of people. I think monthly is a good cadence. It's not in your face. It's not spamming people. And that's just such a low risk thing. So that's one thing that it's been very successful for us. And that list obviously has grown and it's just super low stakes. They're having a newsletter or having a sample deal package ready to go.

Brian Briscoe 0:47

Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment Investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is journal entry number 98. In part of our Ask the Expert series, today we have experienced investor Devin elder and aspiring investor Jared Asch. Keep listening to hear a discussion about borrowing the track record of other members of your team and our approach high net worth individuals. And now this show. Welcome to the direct apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe with four oaks capital and I'm super excited for today's show. It's another one of our Ask the Expert episodes. We have two amazing people on the line here we've got a man with a tonne of experience in this business, Devin Elder, and a very motivated aspiring investor Jared Asch. So first of all, Devin is founder and CEO of DJ e Texas Management Group, a vertically integrated multifamily investment firm based in San Antonio, Texas. Since 2012, the firm has completed hundreds of successful investment projects, including several fullcycle multifamily investments. Devin is principal in over 2000 doors of multifamily units. That said Welcome to the show, Devin. Thank you. Thanks for having me excited excited about it. Yeah, yeah, no, I followed you for a little while now. So I was really, really excited to have you on the show. Essentially, you don't but yeah, when you reached out and asked i was i was just tickled pink. I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So really excited to have you on the show today. And that said, Why don't you give us a little bit of your background in history, and kind of lead us up to you know, what got you into apartments? Sure.

Devin Elder 2:35

So I had sort of a traditional route, early in my life, you know, college and then a corporate career, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I was fortunate to have an entrepreneur, older brother who's a pure as pure of an entrepreneur as it gets. So I'd always kind of seen him doing his businesses growing up, but I opted to, to go to college and, and start in the corporate world. But around 2008 I was I was heavily influenced by some, some books I read and by my brother to start exploring some sort of entrepreneurial endeavour. And what that came out of was I was really inspired and working hard when I got into the corporate world. And that lasted for a couple of years. But it that that started to kind of fade for me. And I realised at some point in there, that there wasn't, there wasn't anything coming for me, I was not going to be part of a company that was gonna have a huge IPO and make me a bunch of money, I'd seen that happen to some other people. And as the years went on, I just kind of realised that nobody's coming to save me, there was no, there was no inheritance coming, there was no big corporate kind of payout coming, I was just kind of grinding away. And it was looking like I was going to do that for the next several decades. And that was very, very motivating to not do that find something else. So I was reading books and trying to find some entrepreneurial endeavour where I could really essentially divorce my time from my earning ability, right? And as found the corporate world, even with promotions and things make more money, but is it the expensive, more time and stress, and that inherently has a ceiling? You know, and so to make the kind of I started asking questions, how can I to x my income, well, to x my income, you know, six figure income in the corporate world? What could happen? 5x 10x you're going Geez, man, I would have to like run this place. And there's already guys that are doing that. And I'd have to like, kill them

Brian Briscoe 4:24

all, basically, for them to die, essentially.

Devin Elder 4:26

Yeah, that's right. So it just I didn't see the path, but with an entrepreneurial and an entrepreneurial endeavour I saw saw that path. And so you know, it's very much entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial endeavour first and how can I find that vehicle and then I kind of stumbled into real estate and I said, Oh, this checks all the boxes. I went to a seminar ended up joining a group A number of years ago and I was off to the races because before that I'd already made up my mind I was gonna get out of the corporate world, even before finding real estate so when I found real estate, it was pedal the metal and I was in I was all in on it. Nice. Now you said you you You started making this transition in 2008. Did the economy at that time have anything to do with that decision? Or did you make that decision kind

Brian Briscoe 5:06

of pre economic crash? No, it did.

Devin Elder 5:09

I saw, you know, what happened to my retirement accounts. And, you know, they got cut in half. And I thought, Well, I'm glad it happened now, relatively low stakes, and not 20 years later, when I'm kind of counting on that or looking at retirement, whatever. So that was a factor. And it was really kind of just drove home this point that you have to take personal responsibility for your financial situation. And that was just really big on that. And so that was a that was definitely a factor.

Brian Briscoe 5:35

Yep. I got extremely lucky with timing in 2018. We, we bought a, excuse me, we bought a house as a personal residence. And so I actually withdrew a lot of my retirement funds for that downpayment. So most of my money came out of the market went into real estate. And so it was one of those things where I was able to buy well and escaped the the huge losses, but anyway, doesn't happen to very many people. And you know, fortunately, I was sitting on the sidelines, you know, thinking, wow, I dodged a bullet. But, yeah, so economic downturn. I mean, we've obviously had another one in this last year. I think that that weighs heavily on on a lot of people who make the same decision. So yeah, so you started into real estate in general? Or do you start in multifamily?

Devin Elder 6:21

I joined a group that taught multifamily and single family kind of buy and hold strategies on both at the time, given my experience, in my limited capital, I started buying houses with hard money, you know, you get a loan at 13 14% interest by the house, fix it up and refinance it. And that was like this magic trick to me, you know, that first little house, I remember thinking, Why didn't anybody show me this in high school, I'd have 100 of these by now, right. But that was a really good strategy and got me into the business with kind of minimal capital. So I started doing a lot of houses. And I burned the candle at both ends for about two and a half years in the corporate world, buying a lot of houses. But all the while I had been through joining this group, I've been introduced to some really big multifamily investors, guys that were buying 200 plus unit buildings, had multiple buildings had, you know, 1000 plus doors and got to kind of befriend these guys. And I always said, since day one, this is where I want to end up, I just don't have the experience or the capital now, I'm gonna start doing single family stuff, because that's, that's what I had the wherewithal to do at the time. But I always had that end in mind, I was wanting to end up where those big guys were. So I had the benefit of kind of doing both. I would network and educate myself, while investing in the single family stuff, and just trying to learn the multifamily business. And that's, that's where I knew I wanted to end up

Brian Briscoe 7:48

Nice, nice. I think a lot of people do the same route. I mean, I remember at one point thinking, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, probably 2005 timeframe. And I remember he talks a lot about commercial real estate in there. I remember looking at that, and thinking, Oh, my gosh, I can't do this commercial thing. That sounds way too complicated. And then I had the thought, but I can probably do this single family rental. And that's what got me started. I think a lot of people make the exact same decision where I can start with single family. That's, that's accessible to me. And quite frankly, I always had the intention, same as you of growing into something bigger. But tell us a little bit how was that transition from single family? I mean, presumably, you had a little bit of success with the single family, how is that transition from single family to multifamily for you

Devin Elder 8:35

is the way I did it. And this is not necessarily the way that I would counsel people to do it. But the way I did it was I'd done a bunch of houses, I had kind of built the muscle of raising capital, even though it's different than a syndication. I basically started using private lenders for my, for my single family activity where Hey, so and so is gonna loan me 100 grand at 10% and I'm gonna go do the thing with the house and refi or sell it and they make a good return and Okay, hey, some, you know, somebody gave me 100 grand, I did what I said and I gave it back to them, maybe I could do more and so I end up doing a lot of that, but my first multifamily is a six unit I bought by myself, just me and the bank, no partners because I still did not feel confident raising capital on a multifamily deal. So six units. I was out there on Sundays, signing leases, you know, we had every manner of management challenge that I ran and so I think it was good experience. It was a lot taught me a lot of things that I don't want to do, and I could kind of check the box on Hey, that was multifamily then after that about a 75 unit with a couple other partners that were more experienced and that is kind of what I'm more would counsel people to do now is hey if you want to end up in large multifamily start there, you know partner partner up and get in there you don't have to run the whole thing yourself day one, nor should you. But I did that on my second deal. That went well and in my third deals 130 units that I bought syndicated deal I had another problem. partner that helped raise some of the equity and helped to get our balance sheet where it needed to be. And at that point, you know, after I bought that deal is like, Hey, I'm the guy running this thing. You know, it was kind of a new world in terms of brokers wanting to meet with me, it's like the word was out, this guy buys deals in this market, and now I'm a part of a much smaller group. And then, you know, since then it's just been the last year we closed two months ago was, you know, $20 million plus deal. You know, no partners on that just syndicated that deal outright. So that's kind of what it's grown into over the years.

Brian Briscoe 10:32

You know, and I think a lot of people think they have to do the same thing. And quite frankly, I mean, what you said resonated with me, I was touring, you know, six, eight and 10 unit properties, trying to purchase those. And I ran into somebody who, basically, in an instant changed my mindset, he just looked at me and says, you don't have to do that. Um, you know, and it was, it was just one of those things where, you know, I still remember that moment exactly where we were when he said it to me, he's like, you don't have to do that, like, you can, if you want to get in, he said the exact same thing you did. You know, if you want to get into the larger multifamily, you should start with the larger multifamily. But definitely appreciate that. But so you went from six to, you know, 75, I think you said in the new 130. Yeah, that's that's a pretty big jump. Now, what what lessons learned from that six units? You know, were you able to apply on on the the larger property? So I know a lot of people still do that, you know, incremental step up route?

Devin Elder 11:30

Yeah. You know, a lot of it was, I learned all these things. I don't want to personally do you know, how can I get a team in there?

Brian Briscoe 11:36

Don't want to sign leases? Yeah,

Devin Elder 11:38

yeah, on a 60 minute, you just you don't have any, any budget to really do anything. You're doing it all yourself. So I think I probably could have skipped that step. It was just a comfort level for me. And it was funny, it did great as an investment. It just, you probably hear this a lot, you know, as a financially, it did great, in terms of ROI on my time is not great yet, right? But it just got me over the hump. And I needed that at the time looking back feels a little bit silly. But people have a lot of fear getting into these larger deals, they should, right? Absolutely, you should have fear about it. You know, you should be really concerned about raising capital from other people until you've demonstrated some competency. So it was really just an internal stepping stone for me, in terms of, you know, operationally, if some obvious stuff, right, but you know, don't buy D properties don't buy properties that are too far to get to at a kind of a far drive to get down to that one, the lower rents, you really see an amazing difference in the demographic in a couple $100 a rent, you know, so I was, I think I bought that thing, rents were five and a quarter and I bumped into six and a quarter. And you know, now the rents on most of our properties are in the eight $900,000 range. It's just completely different world in terms of the type of Resident you're attracting. So those are all kind of obvious rules of thumb that you might hear a million different people say, but I got to kind of experience those firsthand. And it really makes me appreciate goodness gracious makes me appreciate our teams now. And what they have to go through that what the managers have to deal with, what the maintenance guys are dealing with, and all that stuff. And I can kind of say, you know, I used to work in restaurants when I was a kid. And when they would bring in a new GM, he had washed dishes one day he makes salads next day, he do steaks The next day, the GM would do every job in the in the restaurant before he ran it. And I kind of feel like I did the same thing with multifamily. I've at least done every job myself. And I think that gives me a little bit better understanding as the, you know, CEO of this private equity company.

Brian Briscoe 13:32

Yeah. Nice. Nice. I appreciate that a lot. Now, I definitely agree. You don't have to hit those six units to get up. But what what big changes did you have to make from I guess, a six unit mentality to that 75 unit mentality? was it was it a big mental jump. And you talked a little bit about the fear getting to the six unit, what type of fear was there that you had to overcome getting to the 75?

Devin Elder 13:55

Number one is OPM other people's money. And that was just a big jump for me. And you know, what keeps me up at night is taking care of our investors it has since day one, and it still does today. That's That's it. That's what I do. That's what I'm in the business of it happens to be real estate, but taking care of investors, number one. Now, maybe someday, I'm one of these guys that goes out and buys 10 $20 million apartment complexes with no partners. I met a guy. I was like, I was actually in Mississippi this week buying a helicopter buying in this guy that was selling me this helicopter like what do you do? He owns apartments, no partners, and I said what kind of debt to use no debt guys got like hundreds of units. I'm thinking, Okay, that's the place to end up. But I'm not there. I'm raising capital from investors. And as long as I'm doing that investors are number one. So it fear of losing or not performing what we promised investors was always number one. And that was a big, that was a big mental hurdle. For me that was aided by doing all those private lending deals for a few years. And the kind of aha moment was Well, I've raised millions of dollars on these houses, it's just been one project at a time 100 and 150k at a time, but if you aggregate it, you know, when I ran the numbers, I've raised millions of dollars, it's just been spread out. Now I'm doing this similar thing, just in one project. And that was a big, big hurdle for me around around raising capital. That was that was the biggest one.

Brian Briscoe 15:20

Yeah, and I think a lot of people experienced the same thing. I mean, it's, it's one of those things where, in my personal example, I mean, you look at $100,000, and I had to grow into the point to where I looked at $100,000 is not being a large amount of money, you know, right. where I grew up, you know, $10,000 was a large amount of money. But you know, I think adding a zero to that, you know, I think for a lot of people, that's, that's something that they really have to overcome, you know, just the idea of raising a million dollars for a lot of people. Number one is almost insurmountable. And number two, I really liked what you said about, you know, now that you're using other people's money, their interests need to come first, you need to be able to take care of them, you need to be able to provide them the returns that you've promised, because that's that's basically the baseline of your business from here on out. That's right. Yep. That's awesome. Oh, let me ask you this question. What is your big burning? Why? What's your, what's your motivation for all of this?

Devin Elder 16:19

Well, we grew up without means, right. And also, my folks got divorced. And both of those things had big, big impacts on me. And I just decided, when I got married, that was perfect. That was forever, that was, you know, I was going to do whatever I could to not end up like the situation I grew up in, and also not grow up with any means. I said, when my first son was born, 2009 I said, Man, you know, I literally sat down with my wife, we had nothing, and I said, we're gonna be wealthy, we're gonna make this work. And that was, that was a big motivation for me. And so that that fueled me through a lot of years, my motivations are different now. Because I'm, because of where I'm at my life and my business and everything. But that was fuel for many years of building this business was, we're not going to grow up, like I grew up. And it's, it's cliche, but I look at that as a gift,

Brian Briscoe 17:07

right? I

Devin Elder 17:08

look at that, that gift because your, your pain, and anger will be a bigger motivator than the potential gain, right? We do more to avoid pain than to say, you know, I want to be worth $100 million, one day, well, that may not be as motivating as some pain of your childhood that you're trying to escape. It's crazy. So, you know, harness that pain and use it. But that was it for me was you know, grown up with nothing and and have been impacted by my parents divorce like countless other people are, and saying, that's not that's not going to be how my story is going to go? Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 17:43

so I really, that really resonates with me, I mean, my, my big burning more, or my turning point, I think was I'm active duty Marine, most people listening know that. But I was on a ship in the middle of a big body of water on the other side of the world, and he was a birthday, you know, and I was missing a another birthday. You know, and that was a very painful moment. And that's kind of where I resolved, you know, and I, I've realised, you know, long time ago that I'm the only one that can change my future, you know, so I realised at that moment that if I didn't want to relive that pain, you know, every single time I deployed, I had to make changes, you know, and I think it's the same for everybody if you can, if you can match your goals to eliminating pain, that's a really good incentive to accomplish it. So I love what you said there. Let's like slightly shift gears here a little bit. You talked briefly about some of the deals you done, can you can you give us a little more of a deep dive into one of your deals?

Devin Elder 18:44

Yeah, we did. Um, there's a bunch to choose from, I'll pick one that we sold last year is in a little market outside of San Antonio. Maybe pride took me 45 minutes to get there from my office, which is still pretty close, but it wasn't. I'm in San Antonio, just about all of our stuffs here. In fact, it's this deal. If you're watching the video with a prank there, you have the pool. Yep. And this property was 75% occupied, physically occupied. And so we'll talk about the difference between physical and economic vacancy. So you've got 30% physical vacancy, meaning 30% of the units were empty, didn't have bodies in them. Yet 70% occupied people live in there, but you're closer to like 54% economic occupancy, which means like, half the people are paying bills. So kind of a rough property. But But I that 75 unit I alluded to was the roughest property can match. I mean, we had we had people getting people doing drive bys drugs, homeless people mean you name it, so that was like my introduction to multifamily was every negative thing you can imagine, you know, my wife calling me going, my friends tell me there's a helicopter circling your property. They're seeing it on the news, like, you know, are you are you on site is people getting shot? And I'm like, yeah, there's so this problem Pretty the one behind me This is 128 units, by comparison was actually I was okay. You know, we got some, we got some rough tenant base, we got some vacancy, we got some holes punched in some walls, but we're talking earlier about, you know, a good day's not getting shot. Can I remember the inspector on this property said it was a really rough property. And it's like 11 in the morning. I said, Yeah, I mean, tell me it's like, it's just, it's just really rough. I said, has anybody shot at you? He goes, What what are we talking about as anybody shot at you? You've been on the property? He's like, No, of course not. I'm like, oh, we're doing Okay, then. You know, we're Alright. So we spent over a million bucks on capital improvements filled it up, we actually had that thing at 100% occupancy at some point, I rebranded it. I like multifamily, because like compared to being a developer, some it's actually really easy. But some of the just quick wins low hanging fruit I always like to do you put up the solar screens, right, the black screens on the windows makes it look sharp, you paint the trim, you put private yards out for the horizontal wood that makes it look sharp, put a new monument, sign up, rebrand the office, and I mean, not rebrand, but get it out, change out the office, we changed the workout room and kind of upgraded that. And these are all like, easy things to do. Yeah, have a big aesthetic impact on the property. We did not paint the whole exterior. We didn't change roofs. And then we just went in and did those interior upgrades, man, you know, I mean, you're looking for you're looking to spend three, four or $5,000 make the interior nice and see if you get $100 plus rent premium. And that's that's what we did. So we had to get some I actually got a lender out of Chicago that that in retrospect is probably the wrong lender, but they're a bridge lender, you know, they came in, and they would actually lend on a property that was 75 70% occupied, and ride, you know, ride with us on that journey to turn it around. So we turn it around, ended up selling I think our total hold time was like two years on that thing. And we beat our investor projections kind of got in and out. Everybody was happy. Maybe I could have refinance that thing and held on to it, then probably would have been a good move too. But it's important for me, this is like the fourth multifamily deal I bought. And it's important for me to throw a couple fullcycle deals up on the board. You know, we said investors like we always do, hey, this is a five year hold projection. You know, pretty common, but we sold two last year big wins for investors fullcycle deals and you know, I plan to be in this business a long time. It's put you in a different tier as an operator, because anybody got put together a deal by a deal with some projections and a lot of people are, you're in a different tiers an operator where you can point to Zoomers. fullcycle deals, the B projections on it. So that was that was kind of the reason for me to sell a couple last year. And so that, you know, that deal worked out well. I think what we're doing more these days is probably bigger cleaner deals all I care about investor return. So if we can get our investor return on a bigger cleaner deal. I'm all for it.

Brian Briscoe 22:56

Nice. Nice. Now, question on that. So you you advertise? I think you said a five year hold, and you sold this right around the two year mark? Did any of your investors complain? Or were they happy? Because you beat the expectations?

Devin Elder 23:09

I think it was more the latter. I did have a few people ask like why, you know, why sell it now? And it was really just more of a question. Right? Like, Hey, I think, you know, a lot of investors, especially folks that maybe had we had some folks that had never been in a syndication and things like that, it was like, hey, holy cow, this worked. We got our capital back. And you did what you said. And we liked the updates. And, you know, I think there's just everybody kind of breathing a sigh of relief. So no, nobody was upset about that. There were a few questions like, wow, this is the sooner exit than we had projected. But it's hard to it's hard to go wrong and taking a profit and taking the chips.

Brian Briscoe 23:48

Oh, yeah. You know, and we we've only known property for multifamily property for about two years now. And I remember getting a call from a broker, like three months after we closed asking us if we wanted to sell already, you know, and I'm just scratching my head thinking what you know, but, you know, we sat and thought about it and, you know, uncertain certain assets, if you can get that big win, you know, if you can, you know, if you're advertising a 15% annualised return, and you can get them 25. in year one, you may as well do it, you know, be be an opportunist come in with a little bit of flexibility. And, you know, we kind of had the same mindset, you know, if we're giving the investors, you know, more than we advertise in a shorter time, you know, that that's still a win if we're giving them a lesson advertised in a shorter time, you know, then there there might be a little bit of an issue there. But all right, well, that said, What's next for you.

Devin Elder 24:41

We want to buy more deals in San Antonio. You know, our kind of target, we actually just toured a couple of deals that were kind of 100 units each together. They're a little over 200 units and we couldn't make it work, but that's a little small. For us. I'm looking for 150 200 300 unit properties where there's a little Smaller buyer pool. I like submitting an LSI with a map, you know, here's your property we're offering on and here's other stuff we own all around. Everybody likes that lenders like it. Sellers like it investors like it. So we just need to find them. You know, I mean it's it's we're seeing pricing expectations nationwide just getting up there. And again, we've got to make it pencil to an investor return. So just looking for that next deal. We started a management company last year that is rocking and rolling, I'm loving that the control that that gives us in some of the efficiencies. So really, at this point is kind of rinse and repeat. I don't think we're selling anything this year. It's just how can we how can we go find a few more deals in our backyard? similar to the ones we have? It's, you know, I was having a meeting with our insurance broker, he said, you have a very homogenous portfolio. I said, That's perfect. That's, that's, that's what we want. So really just want to rinse and repeat. And the challenges is finding the deals like like everybody, but we'd like to just do do more of the same this year.

Brian Briscoe 25:57

Yeah, and I a couple things I love. I mean, you're you're investing in your own backyard, you know, you're fortunate to live in an area where the grounds are very fertile for investing. So I live in DC, and I think investing in multifamily. Here's a much different story. But I also love the fact that you've you've got all of your, you know, your portfolio in that small little area as well. A lot of economies of scale there. And it's allowed you guys to vertically integrate that property management. So, I mean, I wish I hope certainly hope that, you know, two, three years from now, you know, and we tell the story of four Oaks, it sounds a lot like the story of Devin elder, but an awesome, Yasmin. So let's introduce our next guest. We got Jared Ash on the line. He's from San Francisco Bay Area and has a background in selling to the government with a focus on transportation infrastructure and clean energy. He owns multiple properties in the southeast us. And he's a relationship builder with a track record of raising more than $50 million in capital for political campaigns and nonprofits which amazing absolutely amazing. But he also serves on the city of Walnut Creek Transportation Commission, and the board of the Contra Costa County Transportation Authority. And incidentally, is also a two time Iron Man, avid skier hiker and married with three kids. So that said, Jared, welcome to the show. Thanks, Brian. Thanks, Devon for having me here. Yeah, hey, so a lot of lot of good stuff in that in that background there. So why don't you tell us the the best parts about it give us a little idea, your background in history and kind of what got you into this apartment investing thing?

Jared Asch 27:30

Yeah, well, they tie a little bit together. I like Devin story, I have the divorce, parents grew up learning hard work, if I want something, I got to go make it happen myself. Sort of mentality, and then buying a couple of single family homes in the Memphis area through a turnkey provider, then great just to watch it very simple as a passive investor. But I was like, Well, if I keep buying one of those a year, it's going to take me 20 years before, you know, I've hit my minimum passive income goal. Right? And I was like, how do I scale? And, you know, to to Brian's question of what's got me passionate, and how did the experiences go? I was like, looking around and writing down what are my greatest assets? And it's this network I have of current people I've talked to, and people I've worked with in the past where I've raised capital. And so how can I be successful at raising capital, but making money at it? And I saw the niche to go from single family homes to multifamily, and bring in some of that capital from some of those higher net worth individuals.

Brian Briscoe 28:40

Yeah, yeah. And that's, I think that's natural transition. So you, you've raised a lot of capital for campaigns and nonprofits. So, you know, $50 million is a large sum of money to raise how many of those individuals do you think are interested in in real estate? And I mean, have you been able to approach those guys yet? Just curious how that's going.

Jared Asch 29:02

Yeah, well, that's part of my questions for today is the approach. But I've made a list of about 115 people so far that I feel comfortable in speaking to. And, you know, as I talked to additional people who I didn't have on that list, and I haven't talked to all of those yet, but everybody says, Yeah, I'm interested, show me what a deal looks like. Right? Depends on what the numbers are. But as I talked to people who I didn't even think would do it. They said, Hey, I'd be interested in that. And I don't have a tonne of money to get to 100,000. But, you know, maybe I can bring in a buddy and the two of us can get to 100,000. Oh, yeah, great, right. And that was somebody who I was just a friend that I was just mentioning to what I was thinking, not necessarily hitting him up on that list. So I think the list will keep expanding, you know, as I have a project and start reaching out to that network.

Brian Briscoe 29:55

All right. Well, let's let's ask ask about your big burning why you talked a little bit to it. But if you can just distil that down, you know, what's your big burning? Why, for investing in apartments?

Jared Asch 30:06

I have three daughters, six, three and one. And I don't want to based on my w two job decide, do we go to Disney this year? Or do we go skiing? Right? I want it to be Disney skiing Hawaii. And what else do we want to do? You know, I don't want to have them choose between two activities, ballet and gymnastics. I want them to be able to do whatever they want to do and just have the financial resources to be able to do that. And I work with a mastermind group and we have on my vision board, a ski house in Lake Tahoe. So we can go spend the summers there and ski and just have a good time with the family.

Brian Briscoe 30:47

Nice. Yeah, and I mean, you're in the Bay Area as a Tahoe is close. I grew up a ski snob, you know, in in Utah. Snow snob is what I call myself. But yeah, I would absolutely love to have that little ski lodge, you know, for me to be Park City. But you know, I can see the exact same thing happening. But that's awesome. I think family is, you know, I've asked that same question. You know, many times, you know, where we're right about our 100th episode. So I've probably asked that question to over 100 people already, but family is always part of that equation, you always have that big burning Why? So you know, that said, Jared, we got Devin in the line. What do you want to ask him?

Jared Asch 31:28

Sure, Devin. So I think all of my I'm the capital raiser with the two teams I'm working with. And I think my questions relate to that. So the first one is I have this large network of high income high net worth individuals, how do you best recommend that I approached them about this new venture that I'm taking on?

Devin Elder 31:46

Yep, great question. Great question. it the way I approached it was, this is super simple. But if you don't have a monthly newsletter, just start one and just put everybody on it, and then a monthly newsletter, you know, you could set up, we're still using MailChimp, I think we just published our, I don't know, 40 something right? been years now. But that shows consistency to folks. And it gives you a way very casually. To be in front of people, I think monthly is a good cadence, it's not in your face, it's not spamming people, but we've been doing a monthly newsletter for for years and years now. And the goal is, is just to, you know, have a conversation, and I'm doing commercial real estate, and if you want three on the list, and that's just such a low risk thing for people this, you know, at a bar, you know, neighbourhood barbecue, or casually talking with, you know, one of your colleagues or whatever, just say, Sure, yeah, throw me on there. And so, so that's one thing that it's been very successful for us. And that list obviously has grown. And if you we could see, right, we could see somebody joined it, and they just opened it for six months. But then all of a sudden, we have a deal. And they're in a deal, right. And it took that time for them to get comfortable and see the consistency. So I think that's important. Sample deal package is another great one, right in it. When I started out, it was a 10 page sample deal package, or maybe it's a deal that's already closed with one of your partners, that you can just grab their om their offering memorandum and say, you know, this is what we're targeting these markets, these type of returns, you know, if we, if we get something like that, is that something you want to take a look at? Sure. So just super low stakes, or having a newsletter or having a sample deal package ready to go. And then just, you know, I think the key to you raise a lot of capital, but this this presence, or this air of not needing it, right? Because anytime you need anything it's unattractive, right? So that kind of the way you come across, and then another one that you might already use is, Hey, I'm investing in this deal. Looks like we might have a spot is that something you want to take a look at. And that's going to be probably the biggest credibility builder with anybody that you have a relationship with it, you know, you talk about deals all day long, but you tell somebody put in 50k of your own money in a deal. Okay, now they got, you know, you've got their attention. And so that's one thing that I've kind of used for for years is this where I'm putting my capital in and you know, that that kind of eliminates a lot of questions for people that, you know, a new passive investor might have, what about this? What about this? What about this, you kind of address all that stuff with like, Oh, I'm, I'm investing in it. Personally, I'm writing a check for 50 or 100k in this deal, and that's like, really gets through a lot of barriers there. So I think you know, those, those things are all helpful to have and just setting up kind of some systems you may already have, but you know, setting up a calendar system so people can book calls on your calendar with eight, eight, without eight back and forth. I started doing 15 minute calls, you know, just bad put a 15 minute call in there. It's really not the commitment of anybody's time setting up FA Q's. One thing I did in the beginning was setting up FAQ videos. Look, I'm going to give you a five minute video on what a preferred return is what an equity multiple is what you know this You'll note, I'm sure you guys are both experienced. It's the same 10 questions every time from somebody that's new. Well, let me just build a page that has the FAQ, and they can maybe self service on some of that stuff. And then when we have actual conversation, or now the company's grown now it's our investor relations manager, having that conversation, a lot of that initial stuff can be, can be addressed through a more scalable format, like a like a video, FAQ setup.

Brian Briscoe 35:28

Yeah, a lot of good, good advice there. One thing that I'll add is a lot of people will self select, you know, if you start just telling them what you're doing, I mean, another guy that I had on the podcast made a recommendation of, instead of asking people ask people if they know who's interested, hey, do you know anybody who's interested? Which is a very non threatening question, you're not asking them if they're interested. And his point is, people will self select. And I started doing that a year ago. And it's amazing how many people will be like, yeah, I'm interested, you know, and it's just one of those, one of those. It's low hanging fruit. It's just one of those, hey, do you know anybody who's interested, you can talk to everybody? Do you know anybody who's interested, very non threatening way. And a lot of times you'll get I am, or you know what, maybe my buddy is either way, whatever the responses, it's going to help you out. But a lot of good info there. And I actually wrote down a couple notes myself of things that you mentioned, Devin, that we aren't doing, so we're gonna start doing a couple of those.

Devin Elder 36:32

That's such a great question. You know, anybody that's interested, I've almost made it a game for myself, over the years that I do not ask people directly. You know, I've got some friends. And I've got some people in my circle that probably would be interested. And I've never asked them then kind of almost as a game, because I want them to, I want them to ask me, right. I want them to kind of pursue it. But that's a really powerful strategy. Do you know anybody that's interested because it's completely disarming, and they can self select? That's a great, great

Brian Briscoe 37:01

approach. I love it. Yeah, one of the benefits of podcasting is I get to talk to a tonne of people who know a lot more than I do. Love it. Oh, yeah. Amen. Yeah.

Jared Asch 37:13

Great. No, those are good tips. Thank you. So the next question is, and you alluded to this with like a sample deal package in the newsletter. But as you're talking to people, and you have a day job, right, so I'm not yet at the point where and Brian, you go through this, but Devin, you're full time. And you've done a lot of projects becomes a little bit easier than the newbies in the space. What advice do you have in terms of how to approach somebody to say, Well, what do you really know about this when you're feeling confident when you're feeling good, right?

Devin Elder 37:46

Yeah, that's right. You've got to borrow credibility in the beginning. Right. And so you're partnering with operators, and now you're playing the, the weed game, you may have heard that, right. It's not me, it's in one of the cool things about multifamily is it's inherently a team approach. I mean, you know, 10 $20 million buildings here. It's not a it's not a solopreneur thing anymore. It's inherently a team. So leaning on that team in the beginning is important. You know, I mentioned that 75 unit, I two partners that had done it before. And so I was fortunate to get on and, and do that and build my own track record in that way. But you got to lean on credibility of the team. So there's that and then there's also just constant educate self education, so that you can speak intelligently about this because the more intelligently and nonchalantly you can speak about this stuff, the more that's going to convey credibility. So just constant education. You know, one thing that helped me a lot in the beginning was going to a lot of conferences, obviously, listen to a lot of podcasts, reading books, things like that, just so I could try to ramp up my my expertise and my ability to talk about this stuff confidently. And that that was important. But borrowing the track record of everybody on the team, right? There's the attorney, there's a property management company, there's the operator, all those things, you're gonna you're gonna lean on that credibility and some, you know, the capital raise approach, I really like that model. Some folks never deviate from that they decide they're never gonna go run a deal, because there's a lot of work and expertise involved in that, that they don't want to take on. And there's a tonne of value raising capital. If you've already you're already baked into that, that network, I've got friends that are GPS on, you know, dozens of deals and able to do that, because they don't worry about finding the deal. They don't worry about being the operator, they're just okay with their portion of the GP and raising some capital for that project. And there's a real argument to be made to stay, you know, to keep the business model like DAX is really efficient. And you can go do 15 deals in a year, rather than, you know, we're trying to do three or four this year as the primary operator and we obviously get more ownership by doing that, but I can't do 15 deals as an operator this year, I don't want to. So I think there's a real case to be made for finding the sweet spot in it. If it's if it's raising capital, you could continue to grow it, just just that piece of the business and be be part of a lot of deals in which case, you're never going to speak to expertise of, Hey, I ran this deal, and I hired the property manager and all that stuff. You'll defer to your team on that.

Brian Briscoe 40:31

Yeah. You know, I had the same same issue when I was starting out. And, you know, right now, I've got 19 and a half years of active duty, you know, three years ago, and 1617 year mark. And the most common question I got after telling people, what I was doing was, aren't you a marine? You know, or did you retire? or stuff like that? Are you still active duty? You know, that was the most common question I got. And I realised, you know, one thing I had to change other people's perspective of me, you know, I had to change I had to make people think of Brian Briscoe not as Brian brisco, the Marine Corps officer, but as Brian brisco, the real estate investor. And so I put a lot of time and effort into personal branding, you know, promoting myself on LinkedIn, on Facebook, and everything else. And that made the conversation a lot easier. Number one, and I agree 100%, with what Devin said, about relying on your team, you know, relying on people with more experience, that's that's exactly what I did getting into it, you know, I, I paid for a mentorship programme. And that was my way of getting that, you know, hey, how do you know what you're doing? You haven't done this before? Well, I've got a coach who has 2000 units who has done this before. And he is watching everything I'm doing, you know, he's he's guiding me, he's, you know, that was my credibility was, you know, leaning on my coach and leaning on some of my partners. But you know, great answer, Devin. Loved it. Just throwing my two cents in on the on the top of that.

Devin Elder 42:04

Yeah, I love it about the personal branding, cuz I think everybody goes through that at some point, I kind of forgot about that. It's been years. But when I started DJ E, Texas management group, the logo, if you're watching the video was a was a house, single family house, because that's what I did. And I didn't want to change the company name. And I purposely named the company kind of vague. It could kind of be anything, but change the logo change the focus that lets you know, if we were a company with 100 million assets under management, what's the look and feel like and so I think a lot of people have gone through that transition myself included on their branding and same thing on LinkedIn. And that's important point and transition to make.

Brian Briscoe 42:43

Yeah. All right. Well, we are about out of time. So I got one last question for both of you. And Devin, you go first. how can listeners learn more about you?

Devin Elder 42:53

easiest way is just to hit the website. It's DJ e Texas calm that's Delta Juliet Echo, Texas calm. There's information there ways to ways to reach out all that good stuff.

Brian Briscoe 43:04

All right. And I love that. I mean, being the marina love that phonetic spelling to you know, makes it easy for everybody. But and if you're listening, I'm going to put that in the show notes. So just go down there, tap. And you know, the internet will magically take you there. All right, Jared, same question for you.

Jared Asch 43:21

firework firework, and you can find me through there, my email and phone are there. And that should is being redone now, but should launch next week ahead of the podcast.

Brian Briscoe 43:37

All right. Sounds good. Yeah, this this is probably going to be a Valentine's Day podcast. You know, I think right now it's scheduled to launch on the 15th. So give you a little time to do that up. So good enough. All right. Hey, thanks so much to both of you. I appreciate your time. You know, Devin, you You definitely met expectations, you know, totally delivered. And you know, Jared, great talking to you again.

Thank you for listening to the tiger one apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital. com slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone, app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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