Biggest Challenges in the Business with Josh Plave and Simeon Delos Santos

Episode 123 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Josh Plave and Simeon Delos Santos, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

So we have Josh on the line here. We want to ask him,

Simeon Delos Santos 0:02

What was the toughest period and you know, the highest point of your investing career.

Josh Plave 0:06

I think it's really tricky when you become an entrepreneur, if you're not necessarily the person who's dialled in 100% to be an entrepreneur, there's a lot of self doubt. There's a lot of times where you're like, Okay, am I cut out for this? And so I worked on my mindset, and I worked on on the fact that I'm the one in control, you know, not affected by outside forces nearly as much as I am affected by my own mind. I'm not gonna say that it is the highest moment but it was really nice coming out of that, being able to start closing on deals and, and move myself into a mental state that's prepared or for anything that comes and knowing that it's challenging, but that I'm ready to take on any any challenge that comes along the way.

Brian Briscoe 0:52

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast, we bring some of the top professionals in the apartment investment field to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey, with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an apartment investor podcast is sponsored by four oaks capital, bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is episode number 123. And part of our Ask the Expert series. Today we bring on experienced investor Josh Plave and aspiring investor Simeon de los Santos, keep listening to learn how to attract retirement funds for your investments, how to use your own retirement funds and discussion on the biggest challenges in the business. And now the show. Welcome to the diamond apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian brisco with four oaks capital. Super excited for today's show. It's another one of our Ask the extra episodes, we got two amazing people on the line with us. We got Josh plave and Simeon de los Santos. So Josh, we're gonna start talking with you first is your the the experienced investor on today's show. So that said, welcome to the show. Hey, Brian, thanks for having me. Yeah. So you've done a lot of amazing things. You know, we talked a couple of times, you know, prior to this, but let's just go ahead and jump right into your background in history. Tell us who you are and what, what kind of led you up to this path of apartment investing?

Josh Plave 2:12

Yeah, so it actually it goes back to when I was 16 years old. When I started investing, I opened my first Roth IRA after I was better in some money as a camp counsellor that summer. And my my mother and my grandfather, who builds CPAs, he suggested I start looking out for my future. So I just invested in what I knew at the time, I did stocks and equities for quite a while and the next 1014 years or so. But fast forward about 10 years from then. And my mother and my grandfather I mentioned they actually both passed away. And so what my mom ended up doing was she left my sisters and I with both of their retirement accounts. And so I needed it wasn't really a life changing amount of money. But it was enough that I needed to make sure I was going to be a good steward of their, their wealth they had created and everything that they had worked for, for so long that I didn't just put it kind of on the first sexy thing that I could find. Yeah. So I got figuring out what I was going to do with them. At the same time I was working a W two and I wanted to shift into something I could control a bit more. At the time I was working big data analytics. That's everything I had known for the last 10 years and I wanted to do something that I could see the end results in. So I took the time to kind of educate myself on the topic, ended up long story short, I ended up landing in multifamily syndication. So for the last three and a half years, I've been a syndicator. And last year, I decided to start my own company, Walton chain, where I teach other investors how to use their retirement accounts to get started in real estate. And then with my partners and I, we both go out and find deals that are optimised for the needs of a retirement investor.

Brian Briscoe 3:48

Yeah, nice. Nice. So I gotta say you probably started at first IRA long before I think the average person even thinks about it. I was mid 20s. Before that that idea came across my head so good on you. And I guess good on your set your your your mom, your grandmother, grandfather, grandfather, I mean good on them for for helping you do that and telling you to do that, first of all, but big data analytics, you want it to be able to see the end product you want to get out of the W two. What What led you to multifamily? I mean, out of all the things to choose from multifamily.

Josh Plave 4:23

Yeah, I mean, it stem from that needs to actually see what the what the results of my hard work were, you know, when you do big, big data analytics, you're just kind of sitting in Excel the whole day. And you ship off some spreadsheets and some use your custom databases and you find what they're looking for what your manager was wanting to find out. And so you ship it off, and you never actually see the end result of what's what's going on with your work. I wanted to see tangible results of what I was doing. And I'd always been interested in real estate so I had the time to actually do what I call now a self taught curriculum where you know everyone's done it when they jump into real estate. You To all the podcasts, you go to all the different events, webinars, you do everything you can. But through listening, all that stuff, I ended up realising a common theme. You know, you'd listen to folks, they you want to go, you want to scale up, you want to do one unit tuning in for 816. And maybe someday I want to syndicate, and I kept hearing this word syndication come up many times. So I started looking into it, and realised that ultimately, if you're closing five doors, you're closing 200 doors, it's the same process. And so as long as you're in a commercial deal, you just have to raise more capital. But if you're comfortable with that, and you understand the numbers, and you have partners there who can help support you, it's nothing that you can't achieve. And so I dove straight into multifamily. And I knew it was gonna take some time to operate and get up to speed. So at the same time, I, I also did some private money lending on the side, just to kind of keep philosophy capital up. But beyond that, yeah, that's I wanted to start big.

Brian Briscoe 5:55

Yeah. Nice. And, and what you said, you know, is actually very true. I mean, it's, it's the same process for a small unit as it is for a large unit. I mean, there's, it's a little more complicated when you go large, but it is not 10 times more difficult to close on 100 units that it is to close on a 10 unit apartment. So yeah, when you have a degree to give up difficulty, it does not scale linearly with units. But now here's, here's something that I'd like to ask. So you talked about big data analytics, spreadsheets, and all that stuff. How did your previous job translate to being able to do well in this business?

Josh Plave 6:33

Yeah, I think that's actually how I ended up feeling comfortable getting started on a big scale. Because, you know, a lot of folks are intimidated by the bigger numbers. And I realised as long as I have partners who can help raise capital, it doesn't really matter what those numbers are. And so I came at it and said, if I'm going to understand this business, I need to do it from a numbers standpoint, I have an analytical mind. And so I did a lot of deal analysis workshops and understood, you know, how the deals are structured, how syndications are structured. And I took a look at everything and realised it came natural. And I felt very comfortable running pro formas and understanding how to perform due diligence. And once I felt comfortable with that, I knew I could just replicate that. Once I even had even more experience beyond that. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 7:18

yeah. I mean, basically a lot of people talking about this thing called a superpower, you know what it is, and you you operate. And within your superpower, you figured out how to take something you're naturally good at, apply it to multifamily. And do it over and over and over again. And I also like the part you said, You didn't have to do everything. I think it took me a long time. I wish I wish I would have realised that earlier in my career that I didn't have to do everything. I started trying to syndicate doing it all. And you know, it took me several months of beating my head against the wall before I realised that, you know, I can find somebody else to help me raise capital. And incidentally, I've got two degrees in math. So you know, this, the spreadsheets come easy. The numbers come easy. Every once in a while I'll point people to the movie matrix where, you know, Keanu Reeves character sees pictures, you know, out of the numbers and sometimes that's how I feel it is with me, I don't know if you get the same feeling when you look at the numbers and just, you know, things pop out yet. Numbers synthesis. Yeah,

Josh Plave 8:15

I always talk about that, how I can look at numbers and start to generate a pattern and see maybe human behaviour or what's actually happening in real life based off of patterns. I see a number so yeah,

Brian Briscoe 8:25

yeah, I think big, big takeaway, you know, figure out what you're good at how it relates to multifamily. And you know, you jumped in, you did a bunch of courses on analysis, something you're good at, and basically took this disability of yours fine tuned it and was able to make it work. Alright, so so getting into your your syndications. How did you go about building the team? You talked about the need for somebody to raise capital? How'd you How'd you find that person? Or people?

Josh Plave 8:54

Yeah, I mean, it was I took the quick route for sure. I found a mentor. I ended up joining the think multifamily group I worked with Mark Kenny, and and with that I was able to I didn't have the network. I didn't have liquidity. I didn't have my Fannie or Freddie card. And with all that, I was able to get a team that was capable of raising multiple millions of dollars could achieve all those different tasks. And I can help with due diligence and do them get the you know, the small piece of a big pie that I was looking for.

Brian Briscoe 9:21

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's a smart route. It's definitely more expensive other routes there. There's cheaper ways to do it. But I did something similar. I signed up with Michael Blanc who had a network you know, a large following and was able to jump into that have a large pool of potential partners is how I looked at it. So I think the the mentorship programmes definitely have their place in this business. And for me, it was it was like an accelerant. It was like, you know, I had a little fire burning and I just like dumping a bunch of gasoline on the fire. Don't try that at home. Anyway. Alright, so let's let's talk about you know, your your motivation. I like to call it your big Burning why what's what's your big brain live this?

Josh Plave 10:03

Yeah, I think a lot of people jump into it and they're like my Why is I you know, I want more freedom. I want more money, but you don't really until you've made me experience that a bit you don't realise really What the Why is. I came to me when I was actually skiing one day at Vail. I was able to it was on a Friday and I was able to go up because it was gigantic Saturday, and I got there is like six or 7am. And right as I went over Vail pass, they shut down the highway. And so everyone was stuck behind. And so they didn't open it back up until Saturday morning. And so that was a day where I ruined the left by myself. 20 something times it was I it's sacrilegious to say it was almost too much. No, I was, it was a great day. It was like the perfect ski day. And the next day, there were images of become viral. It was for our lines to get onto the lifts. It was a nightmare, everyone. Eventually I saw what happened the day before anyone who couldn't do and so my why I realised and I now have a folder in my computer. My Why is I took a picture of all that. And I realised the opportunity to go and do what I want to do when I want to do it. I have a daughter on the way by the time this podcast comes out. I'm going to be a dad, which I'm really excited for us. Yeah, thanks. And I'm doing I'm doing all this for my daughter. And I'm doing all this so I can spend time and take the time off when I need to. And that's really what comes down to

Brian Briscoe 11:25

you know, I grew up in Salt Lake City. So I understand those big power days. I would I didn't do this frequently. But if there was a big powder day on a Wednesday, every once in a while I'd miss school, you know and just just be able to jump up and you know, on up there, but I do understand what you mean with with almost too much snow. I think there was one trip I remember where we were skiing, there was probably 30 inches of powder dumped in a two day period. And that was that was probably where it was too much snow if you're you know, off the groom trails a lot. But anyway, actually, I wouldn't say it was too much. No, I would just say my I needed a little better skills. You know, I needed to ski better.

Josh Plave 12:04

It's an equipment problem at the heart of it. Yeah, had fat skis, but they couldn't go through four feet of snow.

Brian Briscoe 12:10

Yeah, I did not have to get fat skis. I mean, fat skis weren't really a thing. I'm a little older than you. But this was early 90s. And fat skis weren't really a thing back then. So anyway, good. Good. Yeah. I think a lot of people resonate with that a lot of people want to be able to, I think this may have been something that you sent to me. You want to be able to live your life on weekdays?

Josh Plave 12:32

Yes. And yet. That's actually what I sent originally. Yeah. Because just just when I go to the store when I do things, I it's me and the elderly group. I should. Yeah, I mean, I just I hate going to the store now on Saturdays and Sundays. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 12:47

yeah. And I agree, you know, be able to live your life on weekends and not have to wait a week days, and not have to wait for the weekends to do the things you'd like to do and spend time with people you'd like to spend with. So I definitely appreciate how you phrase that and and love it. But so let's let's shift gears slightly, let's start talking about apartments in general, or specifically apartments Can you can give us an idea of one of the deals that you've done. And actually, prior to the show, you mentioned one that you should have

Josh Plave 13:12

closed by the time this airs. Yeah, at the time of recording, it should close in about a week. And hopefully it goes by then, by the time this airs. So this is actually our first class a property. I like to call it Class A minus because I think right now, Class A plus is not necessarily where everyone wants to be. Yeah, but you know, it's in Sarasota, Florida. And it's definitely the biggest deal I've done. It's not the biggest one my partners have done. But it was nice to have that team and it was a $26 million acquisition. And so we actually got a private equity firm to help us out with this, it's the first time we've done PE, and they were willing to bring in 6.7 and which is really nice. And the way it's negotiated is they they are capped at 14% IRR. So anything above that is is gravy for for LPs and GPS. And that really helps us you know, further leverage, in my opinion, a safer, more conservative manner than just getting straight debt for for overall returns. And so the really interesting thing is 25% of the units and this property is 148 units 25% of the units are under Allura so it's a it's low income housing. And the interesting thing about the overall property is that 100% of the units were built to the same standard as the low income units and so that the finishes are not what you'd expect in a class property. So we can go in and there's you know, it's already low maintenance it's it's low hanging fruit we can go in and just kind of spruce up the the kitchens and bathrooms repaint a little bit just fix up what doesn't necessarily need fixing but bring it on to the level of what a class a property in the market is expected.

Brian Briscoe 14:49

Nice, nice. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a huge win on that one. We have not dived into private equity yet. So so basically your capital stack looks like you're you're still getting debt on the bottom. You get the price. The equity firm coming in. And I assume you're still raising common equity or just going through your your networks to bring more money into to basically finish off with the total amount, right?

Josh Plave 15:10

Yeah, we'll see what the total raise ends up at because it's somewhat in flux based off of how the property performs. But it's somewhere between four and four and a half million. And yeah, the the private equity gets paid up to I think we have a 10% breath. And then beyond that, we start to pay to LPs.

Brian Briscoe 15:27

Okay, so so the private equity has a 10 pref. And a hard cap of 14. Okay, good, good. Yeah, I like that structure. I mean, it still leaves meat on the bone for the people who are doing the common equity tranche, and you know, that you can still probably realise you're really good returns, because of that cap on the private equity. So, yeah, it sounds it sounds like a good deal. Sounds like you guys have a lot of opportunity there. You know, Sarasota, Florida is an area that's growing quickly. I think, I think, depending on what metric you use, and what website you follow, a couple of weeks ago, I was looking at one website that had the trends of where people were moving, and, and what cities are growing fastest. And I think, you know, 10 of the top 25 were in the state of Florida. So you know, a lot, a lot of solid dynamics that are happening there. And you guys are right in the middle of it. So, you know, hopefully, when this airs, you know, this, this is, uh, congratulations on closing. But, you know, hope everything goes well in the next week and get across the finish line. Thank you. Thanks. We're looking forward to one other question. I always like to ask everybody just to see what people have in the hopper, you know, people people have in mind, what's what's next for you,

Josh Plave 16:30

right now, the pipeline starting to heat up, we're looking for more deals that just click for retirement investors, the way that I run my operation is I have to, unfortunately, pass on a lot of good looking deals, just because they have a larger tax hit, or my IRA investors. And so I am somewhat picky. And so I basically have to wait for something to come around that, you know, it's hard to pencil out deals in general, and then I have to even further dial it in. So hopefully, something coming down the pipeline.

Brian Briscoe 16:59

Yeah, that's important. I mean, if you have a lot of IRA investors, you there's this thing called the ubit, which does take a chunk out of people's earnings. You know, a lot of times you think, hey, it's in a Roth IRA, it's gonna grow tax free, until you put leverage behind it. And then all of a sudden, there's, you know, little tax code that kicks in, but you're probably one of the first people that I've ever heard say, we actually look at what the cost is to our IRA voters before we would make an investment on there. So

Josh Plave 17:29

yeah, that that stems directly from the fact that I had a bunch of retirement accounts. And so I wanted to know how to deploy them. So I ended up building, I think, the industry's first ubit calculator. And I just wanted to figure out what the tax implication was going to be for my investments. And then now I start, I've started to use that for my own investors. On my own properties. That's how I kind of filter them out.

Brian Briscoe 17:51

Yeah, yeah. And that's a it's kind of a big deal. You know, a lot of people don't understand the whole ubit. And I've heard a lot of people say that they put their SD IRA money into a deal. And were shocked at the back end when it sold and they had to, they had a tax bill. So it will cut into returns, you know, so if you're advertising, you know, 15 or 18, or whatever percent returns, people who are investing with that SD IRA are going to get a lower return than everybody else. Because of that tax. So anyway, excited to hear that. And, you know, you've attached calculator, you know, is music to my ears. So, I'm already you know, seeing pictures and just just imagining the numbers. So, what cool, hey, well, let's say let's shift gears one more time and bring Simeon on, Simeon. Your turn now, welcome to the show. First of all, how about you talk to us a little bit about yourself, tell us about your background and where you are right now.

Simeon Delos Santos 18:46

Sounds good. Thanks for having me on the show. I've been looking forward to that. But yeah, a little bit about me. I was born and raised on Guam. And my parents were and then my dad was an engineer, and my mom was a nurse. So I grew up in a upper middle class family, and no, fortunately, they were able to provide me an education throughout my childhood and you know, most of my life, and I'm able to attend the University of Wisconsin Madison. So when I first kind of got into the university, I was an actuarial science major. So after about one year in the programme, I kind of realised, not really for me, you know, too much math. And it really came to the point where, you know, my first internship in freshman year, I got to work with mid sized firm in on Guam, ASE trust, and I got to actually work with their wealth management division. And since then, I was hooked into personal finance. And you know, this semester I got back first semester of sophomore year, I filled out that form and I became a finance major, so never looked back since then.

Brian Briscoe 19:55

Nice. Nice. Now, how big is Guam?

Simeon Delos Santos 19:58

Not very big. I think It's only like 40 miles long, 2030 miles wide. A lot of people hear that. And then, you know, they, it sounds really small, but when you actually get on it, it is bigger than you think, you know. And we don't have highways. So it's not as quick to get around. And, you know, yeah, I mean, I

Brian Briscoe 20:20

spent I spent three years living on Okinawa, which is probably 6070 miles from north to south, and on average, 15 miles wide, you know, but I hadn't quite an active duty marine and I think the Marine Corps is planning on excuse me moving moving more and more, you know, personnel to Guam in the near future. But yeah, so it anyway, a lot, a lot of a lot of interest in that, that little island. And so since you grew up there, it's got to ask this question, since you grew up there. That's kind of what you do. Did you ever get this island fever like, man, I need to see more heat to get off the island.

Simeon Delos Santos 20:53

Yeah, so um, you know, fortunately, my parents were able to, you know, we did vacations went to the Philippines, often, South Korea, a lot of countries that were kind of not too far from the island. And I got to visit the state throughout my life every so often, because we have family there. So you know, Hawaii, California, those were kind of the place that I was able to visit. So I knew, you know, before I came to Wisconsin, I knew what snow it looked like. And I had experiences. But definitely the Midwest cold was still a shock to me. It was Oh, yeah, something different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

Brian Briscoe 21:32

you didn't have the marijuana life is basically what you're saying? No, no. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Got to get some exposure. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So the three years I spent on open now, I mean, it was a beautiful island. It's not terribly far from Guam as far as that goes. But my biggest regret is I didn't travel enough, you know, so that that was the one thing I was I was so close to all those crazy, crazy those those amazing countries. You know, I did go to South Korea a couple times to Philippines a couple of times and whatnot. But I walked away feeling like I didn't travel enough, manageable location enough. Anyway, that said, So you talked a little bit about what kind of drove you towards apartments. But if you could just in one or two sentences clearly define what your big burning? Why is, you know, why? Why are you interested in what motivates you to do this?

Simeon Delos Santos 22:24

I really want to give a concise answer to this. But is it okay, if I give like, you know, some background? Yeah. All right. So, you know, about a year ago, I actually underwent a pretty serious medical procedure. And when you go through something like that, it definitely changes your perspective on a lot of things. And, you know, my perspective on what I envisioned for myself, change drastically, especially when it came to, you know, building wealth. And, you know, if I could just kind of give my big why or my big burning, why in a sentence is that, you know, life's too short to not do what you wanted. You know, it really is. And I kind of found out that, you know, through self education, that, you know, real estate, allows people to do what they want to do, allows people to, you know, build lives that they never otherwise could Av. And before that, I always thought that real estate was kind of like not really up my alley. And it was kind of unrealistic, given my career path. But the more I looked into it, you know, there are a lot of regular working professionals, and finance lawyers, doctors who do involve themselves in real estate. And, you know, I kind of realised that, you know, I could do this, there's something that I could definitely pursue down the line. And ever since then I've kind of immersed myself in that world. But at some point, of course, I realised, you know, I need a mentor. I can just keep watching YouTube videos and podcasts. You had Joon Shin on this podcast before. And me and him actually went to the same high school. So a good friend of mine actually sent his LinkedIn profile. And, you know, I messaged him, and I asked, Hey, can you teach me about real estate, and fortunately, he was more than happy to help. And he brought me on to brighter future capital, where I was able to learn how to do some market analysis, underwrite properties. And, you know, he also recommended some good books. Of course, I had to read. Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And you know, ever since then, I've invested myself into real estate.

Brian Briscoe 24:32

Yeah, so so thanks for that. I mean, I think something you said just really resonated with me. You know, life's too short to not do what you want to do. Okay. very concise, very tweetable right there. I mean, that's that's a perfect way of putting it and you're looking back at my life. I wish I had that the attitude when I was your age, I was always thinking that you're putting in a lot of work, a lot of work and eventually I'll be able to do what I want to do when I wish I had adopted that philosophy. A lot younger in life, but we're here now. And I'm plugging along trying to do exactly that. So, but here we go, Simeon. So we have Josh, on the line here, we want to ask him.

Simeon Delos Santos 25:10

So why did you open a Roth IRA at the age of 16? And, you know, how did you kind of get into trading securities?

Josh Plave 25:17

Yeah, so, I've long been interested, you know, my, my parents did a good job, I think, because my mom was a CPA, and she was constantly trying to teach us, you know, personal budgeting and everything. And my dad, you know, he fancies himself kind of a, you know, good investor, where he didn't read the Morningstar reports and everything. So they always come in dabbling and teaching me. And so I wanted to get started. And at the time, I was actually and I still am, I'm obsessed with aeroplanes. And so I was in the middle of getting my pilot's licence. And I wanted to invest kind of in what I knew, that's what I had said earlier, and I put the money I'd earned about $1,000. That summer, I didn't really need anything. So I put it away into a Roth IRA, so that I could, and I figured, you know, I'm probably gonna pay a higher tax rate at some point, when I'm a camp counsellor. So I put it into aerospace and defence Fund, and the broker who helped me with it, he was like, I highly advise, you don't put it into this fund. And it actually ended up being the s&p 500. By the time I pulled it out. So I was pretty happy with that. I always suggest people invest in what they know, and and what they're passionate about. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 26:24

yeah, I love that. Now, I wish I would have jumped into Roth IRAs earlier, because I could have saved a lot of money on taxes early on, because my tax tax rate has gone up since I started that that was smart for you to do, and a lot of a lot of wisdom that took me many, many years to figure out.

Simeon Delos Santos 26:43

So kind of Where did you get the idea to use self directed IRAs as a real estate investment tool? Like at the time was a typical? Or would you consider yourself kind of a pioneer in this investment method?

Josh Plave 26:56

You know, it, it stemmed from a need, I had, you know, as I mentioned, my sisters were our invest with me. And they're both school teachers. And so we kind of fell into this situation where we needed to figure out what we were doing, and I went to business school, so I have a business mind, but, you know, there to school teachers, and I needed to help them out. And I needed to really dive into what we could ultimately do with it. And I remember I was interested in real estate. And I was also at the same time trying to figure out what I could do with these, these IRAs. And so I ended up talking to somebody and there was, you know, those lightbulb moments in your life, when you're like, Okay, that was the time, somebody told me that I could leverage my my retirement account, I could apply leverage in my retirement account. And the light bulb went off in my head, I was like, okay, so I don't, I'm not just looking at seven to 8% returns, I could get 1520, whatever. I know if I find the right property. And so from then on, I basically was trying to find all the methods I possibly could. And I certainly wouldn't call myself like a pioneer in it. But I really, I do think I'm one of the only people who raise primarily, you know, for retirement investors, most people who speak on this topic on podcasts or at seminars or anything, they are the custodians themselves. And the reason I wanted to do this is because I'm an investor speaking to it, so I come at it from the investor mindset. And I think a lot of people who are educating on it are trying to sell a product. And so they tell you about 75% of the story, and they don't tell you like the last 25% of how to really optimise the account that's best for you, they essentially keep it to what's best for them. And so I wanted to tell other investors, you know, how they can best do it, because I learned and even if folks don't end up investing with me, it's great that I get the opportunity to teach other people what they can ultimately do.

Simeon Delos Santos 28:41

So would you say that most of your kind of the people that you work with are, you know, older people, you know, considering that it's retired?

Josh Plave 28:48

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, it's a mix, I certainly would say it does skew a bit older for for my investor base. But at the same time, I also find a lot more investors who are there from, you know, tech companies who have jumped around from job to job, because essentially, you can only really use a retirement account that is at, you know, from an old employer, if it's currently at an employer that's being held at that employer, you really can't pull it away from that plan, and then end up using it. So I, I find people who have built up 401, K's or larger term accounts, and have them from previous jobs, whatever that ends up being, whether it's a high earner or someone who's just old earlier, and they had time to build that up. Those are typically my investors.

Simeon Delos Santos 29:36

So have you ever heard of integrated asset management? I haven't No. So basically, this kind of new wave that's going on in financial planning, where financial advisors are starting to kind of work with real estate and use them in their kind of the investment portfolios for their clients. So that's kind of like a brief explanation. on it. So what are your thoughts on that? You know, the inflamation implementation of real estate in traditional financial planning?

Josh Plave 30:08

I think that's fantastic. You know, we had, I have a another mastermind I'm a part of, and some of them came to the group and said, Hey, what do you guys do when you're talking to kind of more beginner investors? And they say, well, this all sounds very good, I'm going to have to go and talk to my financial advisor about it, and they typically are going to go dark. And so I, in my opinion, the answer was you need to ask your or find out if your advisor is a fiduciary or not, if they're in it for making fun making fees off of off of your investments, or if they're in it for just the overall growth of your account or and achieving whatever goals you're trying to target. And so I love that I think it should not be just limited to equities. I think if you're interested and you understand cryptocurrency, that's something you should go into gold, whatever the hell it is you want to do. I think it's fantastic. If people are looking beyond just the typical stocks and bonds that people are educated on at college,

Brian Briscoe 31:03

I've seen most financial planners, that's exactly what they're gonna push is the stocks and the bonds. And if they're not a fiduciary, it's usually the products, their companies is pushing themselves, you know, so they're at company x, they're going to be offering company x products, because that's where they make the most returns. And I have also found the same thing, as you just said, Josh, where the newer investors, as soon as they say, let me talk to my financial planner, you know, that's, I chalked that up in my mind is this is most likely going to be a no a follow up that with them in a week or two, but almost guarantee their financial planners going to tell them not to do it, because it's an alternative investment, or it's not as safe as the stock market or whatever. But anyway, anything that disrupts that system, I'll be a fan of. Alright, thank you. Alright, what else you got sitting?

Simeon Delos Santos 31:49

So, Josh, he kind of worked as you traded securities for like the early part of your career, did you kind of like make a clean transition into real estate or you kind of dabbled in it while you were in that part of your career? And at what point were you like, Okay, I'm not going to trade securities anymore. I'm not gonna work in the finance industry, I'm gonna go straight into real estate, you know, and how can you balance that? You know, that lifestyle?

Josh Plave 32:14

Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's a tricky blend, I wouldn't necessarily anybody suggest that anybody jump into it? First, all in one, and then just liquidate everything. I, I'm still in some securities, and I'm in. I don't typically at this point, do you know, ETFs, or mutual funds anymore? Just because I'm not trying to capture the broad market. At this point, I'm invested in a few companies that, you know, have products or biotechs, that I believe in and I think are going to do well. But beyond that, yeah, it there was kind of a moment where I knew what investment class I wanted to find. I'm not an accredited investor. So I had to make the connections as a sophisticated investor to pair up with with operators when I was just passively investing. And once I found those, I was looking for the right deals, I was looking for something that that came along that I liked. And so I had sort of, you know, liquidated our funds previously, because our some of them because I needed to set up these these self directed IRAs. And it takes some time. So I did it. And there was maybe about a month or two lead until we found a deal. And then, because there was, you know, because I knew it was going to take some time to find something that was optimal. And I didn't just want to like, oh, wow, that looks good. 18% return Great. Let's do it. Because I knew it takes some time to kind of be picky. That's why I ended up doing private money lending. I had some folks that I knew in Boston, who flip properties, and so I lent them funds. And we've been doing that and we're kind of winding up shop on that.

Simeon Delos Santos 33:40

What was the toughest period and you know, the highest point of your investing career kind of like the apex at the lowest point.

Josh Plave 33:46

Yeah, this is this is something I'm trying to as I go on more podcasts, I'm trying to be more open and honest about it. When I started in real estate, I think it's really tricky. When you become an entrepreneur, if you're not necessarily the person who's dialled in 100% to be an entrepreneur, there's a lot of self doubt, there's a lot of times where you're like, Okay, am I cut out for this, and I entered a period of some depression, honestly, and I kind of lagged quite a bit and just didn't really know I was a bit listless every day, and I didn't know where to go from there. And so I worked on my mindset, and I worked on on the fact that I'm the one in control, it's, you know, not affected by outside forces, nearly as much as I am affected by my own mind. And so I worked on that and I, it I'm not gonna say that it is the highest moment but it was really nice. Coming out of that, being able to start closing on deals and, and move myself into a mental state that's prepared for for anything that comes and knowing that it's challenging, but that I'm ready to take on any any challenge that comes along the way.

Brian Briscoe 34:46

You know, that resonates a lot. I mean, there's definitely been days where I've had those those feelings, you know, and a lot of people just don't talk about it. You know, I think a lot of people are getting into the business. When they start feeling that way. They look at other people and Just projecting or like, your, well, they don't look like they felt like that something's wrong with me, I've got to fix things. But one thing I definitely appreciate, first of all, appreciate your honesty on that one. A lot of people won't even mentioned stuff like that. But working in the mindset, you know, when I, when I came into this started doing this business, I wasn't focused on mindset, I figured that if I could learn how to underwrite, I've learned how to analyse, I'd be the one who'd be able to find and just put in the effort, I'd be able to find deals, but ended up being big leaps forward in my mindset, that actually propelled me forward and basically lead to success. So definitely appreciate we sit on now. There's there's a big emphasis that I now placed on, you know, mindset and recognising limiting beliefs, and recognising when I'm in, you know, a vicious cycle, you know, mentally, and just saying, Hey, I'm spiralling downwards mentally, right now stop, you know, but I faced a lot of the same things. And there was a time where I was just afraid to jump in and be an entrepreneur. But anyway, it's hard.

Josh Plave 36:05

I think you brought up a great point is that is the comparison to other people. And one thing that I've been focusing on in the last few months is realising what I'm capable of in this moment as myself, I'm a lot better than I was a year ago. And I'm not nearly as great as I'm going to be a year from now. And a lot of those people that I'm comparing myself to all the time, they're a year from now me, or they're two, three years from now me and I'm just accomplishing what I can today.

Brian Briscoe 36:30

And I, I've learned very recently to do the same thing and just say, Okay, this guy may have a lot more units than I do has a lot more followers, his podcast is better or has more followers. But I like to backtrack and just think, Okay, well, he started his podcast three years before me. So he's three years ahead of me. He started his investment company four years before me. So he's four years ahead of me. And now when I'm doing those self comparisons, I still do them. I think it's natural for people to do it. Now, when I do it, it's like, okay, you know, I've been doing this for two years. I'm probably about where he or she was when they were doing it at the two year mark. So it's really it's really helped just that perspective, and not looking at where people are. But yeah, a lot of lot of tricks we play on ourselves in our minds and get your mindset, right, you're gonna do a lot better in this business then if you don't. All right. Well, that said it got one more question for each of you as we wrap up today. And Josh, you get to go first, how can our listeners learn more about you?

Josh Plave 37:32

Yeah, folks can find out more about myself, my company and retirement investing at wall to provide all sorts of tips and tricks, different videos and educational content. I also provide a free PDF for everyone the top 10 tips and tricks when using your retirement account to invest in multifamily. And so I identify all the rules and the kind of regulations you need to look out for how you can optimise your account to maybe get around some of them or just overall figure out how you can best use your account to when navigating those things.

Brian Briscoe 38:04

Yeah, and incidentally, I am going to download that today because I'll get rid of my w two job here real soon and be able to pull my money out and park into a self directed fund. So very eager to check that out myself. Send me that same question for you. How can the listeners learn more about you?

Simeon Delos Santos 38:22

Can you guys can reach me on LinkedIn at Simeon to mostella fontas. I'd love to talk about stocks the market real estate and you know any other business ventures. You can reach me by email at Simeon Tomas della

Brian Briscoe 38:38

All right, awesome. Well,

hey, you too. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. This was a great conversation amazing episode and wish you guys both the best and poke Talk to you soon. God bless you.

Thank you for listening to the divergent apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings or want to be a guest on our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcasts or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull out your phone app, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favourite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.

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