Updated: May 22
Episode 96 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Gino Barbaro and Joey Biccum, hosted by Brian Briscoe. Transcript by Otter.ai - please forgive any errors.
Brian Briscoe 00:00
So Joey, we got Gino on the line here. What do you want to ask him?
Joey Biccum 00:02
What have you found as one of the most successful methods for networking with those high net worth individuals to bring them over to your team and be excited about what you guys have going on.
Gino Barbaro 00:14
Get on as many podcasts as you can create content, start writing a blog, if you've got a website, make sure it's SEO optimized, make sure you've got a blog writing up if you can think about getting that all together a year, 18 months, two years down the road, you may have a book together that is the best business cards you could possibly have is by writing a book that may be premature, but let me plant that seed. Next thing is maybe start your own podcast, trying to be relevant trying to put out content and trying to stay ahead of what's going on, I think will serve you.
Brian Briscoe 00:51
Welcome to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with your host Brian Briscoe. In this podcast we bring some of the top professionals the apartment investment fields to discuss various aspects of the apartment investing journey with the sole purpose of educating listeners to make wise investment decisions. The Diary of an Apartment investor podcast is sponsored by Four Oaks Capital bringing you high yield returns through apartment complex investing. This is episode number 96. And part of our Ask the Expert series today we talked with Gino Barbaro from Jake and Gino and Joey become, keep listening to learn how to buy, write, manage write, and finance right and how to attract those elusive high net worth investors. And now the show Welcome to the diamond apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Brian Briscoe with forex capital I'm very excited for today's show. It's another one of our Ask the Expert episodes. We have two amazing people on the line a man with a ton of experience in this business we got Gino Barbera and a motivated energetic aspiring investor Joey become so Gino for most people who listened this podcast you know probably doesn't need an introduction but I'm still gonna read his his bio in case there's there's a couple people who are hiding under rocks for a while. But you know as an investor, business owner, author and entrepreneur, he's grown his real estate portfolio to over 1400 multifamily units. And as a co founder of Jake and Gino, the multifamily real estate education company that offers coaching and training in real estate founded upon their proprietary framework of buy, write, manage write and finance, right. He's a best selling author of two books, wheelbarrow profits, and family food and fryers. And he graduated from the AIPAC Institute where he earned his designated as a Certified Professional coach. He currently lives in St. Augustine, Florida, with his beautiful wife Julia and six children. So that said, very impressive, Gino, welcome to the show.
Gino Barbaro 02:35
Brian, thanks for having me on. Joey, how you doing today?
Joey Biccum 02:37
Good brother. Thanks for having us.
Brian Briscoe 02:39
Yeah, so this is this is a great time for me to you know, I gotta say, I've been a fan of you guys for for quite a while now. You know, listen to your podcast, you know that the several different variations of it. And I think you guys are doing an absolute amazing job. So thank you for all the content you've put out. And all the help you've done for people like me.
Gino Barbaro 02:57
Thanks, Brian. I appreciate that. And I love the the platform and it's funny, when you first start out, you're like, I'm going to do it for myself, I'm going out there, I'm gonna make a ton of money. But as you probably have learned over your 90 something episodes, it's the seek to serve and what you get out of an hour, you know, spending with joing with yourself now I'm learning a lot. I'm getting better at my craft. And you just never know what you pull out in the in that hour that you spend with somebody. So it's just an amazing platform.
Brian Briscoe 03:22
Yeah, I love it. And something else I've learned over the years is the golden rule really is golden. I mean, you spend time with other people, and you try to help other people and it ends up coming back to you. I mean, you never know like you said you never know what's gonna come of it. I met my partner's just reaching out and trying to be a good person and help other people out. And it's led to partnerships. So yeah, and today, it's great. But as far as your platform and your program I've got a couple of people that I know that have gone through the Jake and Gino coaching. And like I said before the podcast interview started, they are absolutely raving fans of it. So before we get into your background, would you mind taking a minute just telling everybody what you have to offer?
Gino Barbaro 04:02
So Jake, and Gino was created back in 2015. And I started it. Just like I said, a few seconds ago, I wanted to monetize, I wanted to make money through education. And what I've learned through the process is that's the byproduct, you create an amazing community of investors. And I'm reading Stephen Covey's seven habits of highly successful people, right, Highly Effective People. And I'm quarter the way through it. And as I'm reading this book, it's resonating with me on so many different levels of why I created Jake and Gino. And the amazing thing is you start out by learning, right? And then you do and then you teach. And now as a teacher as an educator, it comes back threefold fourfold fivefold because I'm learning about market study. No, I'm learning about different strategies and different techniques. I'm getting better as an investor because I need you right? Because when you start learning something, you have to become better at it. And I love the platform. I love the people. It's all about relationships in this business also. So you're creating relationships. You know, Brian, how often can you get on a call with Ken McElroy? You know, yeah, free and do a podcast with him. That's what Jake and Gino is all about. And I created a community not just to teach about multifamily, but it really is personal development, right? We have a lot of stuff that we do spousal communications. We have a Toastmasters group we just started two weeks ago within the communities, we have accountability pods. And it's an amazing platform. There's something in there for everybody, right? And you can learn the three step framework, the buyer, right, the manager at the finance, right. But at the end of the day, it's all about the community. And it's all about the networking, and it's all about the relationships. And it's all about finding partners and finding capital in the deal. And starting out whether you're a new investor who needs to learn the entire framework, or you're somebody who's experienced and really needs to go out and say I'm just looking for capital, or I'm looking for markets, or I'm looking for a partner or I'm looking for a vendor. I think there's a little bit for everybody in there. Okay.
Brian Briscoe 05:43
Yeah, absolutely. Right. I mean, something I've noticed, I mean, I'm several years behind where you're at, you know, we did our first multifamily deal two years ago, but the the communities that are centered around multifamily, the best ones are exactly what you said, where there's something for everybody, you know, so when I first came into the two communities like that I was looking for, for mentorship, and I'm looking to learn and you know, now several years later, I'm able to give back in a lot of cases. And in some cases, we're actually finding people who who've partnered with us on deals that are you know, a couple steps behind us But anyway, you know, I love your program, love the podcast, love everything you guys put out. And you know, I'll continue to be a Jake and Gino fan, probably twice as much now that we've had this chance to talk. But anyway, so that said, let's let's talk a little bit more about you know, your background and what got you into apartment investing.
Gino Barbaro 06:36
So I want everyone to picture this back in 1994. We're going back a long way. go out and buy the first restaurant. And the only restaurant that I ever owned, right? And I said to myself, I want to become this restaurant mogul. I bought with a family, my brother mom and dad, we were the ultimate mom and pops. But if you go back in time, you can live a really nice middle class lifestyle. Only one business right? Then what happens is dad back in 2008, he passes away 2007. And I said to myself, am I building my dad's dream, right building my dream because I always want to be an entrepreneur. But having that felt like I had a nine to five job. I love the restaurant. But everyone, we all have a short memory. Oh, wait was the great recession. Right? And that was my pandemic and I'm sitting there, I'm working harder and making less. I'm like, I need a shift. I need a change here. I've done a couple of real estate deals they have not gone well, to say the least. First one is on mobile home park crapped out $172,000 loss. We'll never forget that right. Great lesson was that. But it was an opportunity because I said, You know what, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't deserve to be in partnership with anybody. I don't know how to raise capital. I don't know how to do due diligence. I'm blaming the partner who it was, it was their fault. But ultimately, it was my fault. Right. And you know, I follow that up with another doozy. I bought a strip mall in New York kept it for 10 years, 10 years of pain. And through that process, I said, I want to do something different. I'm working at the restaurant, Can I do something part time, I don't want to flip homes, I don't want to be single family that led me to multifamily. And in 2009, I took a couple coaching programs, I quote unquote, spent money on education. When I don't reality, that was the best investment I ever made. I spent 20 grand if I had spent that 20 grand, I wouldn't have lost 170 grand. You see how that works, everybody. And that 20 grand, I remember going through our third deal. I had like an coach going through it with me. And it was amazing. So I'd pick up the phone and say, Hey, do you have a due diligence document for this? Hey, can you help me with my credibility book? Hey, how is financing I mean, I worked through the entire process through that deal. And he got me over the finish line that deal which was completely revolutionary for me. So that's why I got into it. I want to do it part time and just have proof of concept working at the restaurant. I had the restaurant still. And my goal was to do a couple $1,000 a month in passive income that was my goal. I could pay the bills. I know Brian, you have five kids. I've got six oh yeah. Everyone's always telling us you know what those colleges are coming up that you know retirements coming up and I say to everybody I challenge everybody I had that middle class mentality of I'm going to save for an event No, I was saving to buy that asset which is going to pay for the event and now fast forward. My daughter's graduating college My son is in is going into a second year that one asset that I bought my very first deal is funding their college that's that deal is still printing three grand a month for me every single month and principal pay down cost segregation appreciation from one stinking asset. So for me multifamily, I saw it I just didn't know how I could do it. And I was fortunate enough to meet Jake back in 2010. We partnered up he moves down to Tennessee, no deals in New York. I'm like Jake, I know how to partner you know, work out of state. I know how to run these deals we got together. It took us 18 months to find that first deal. It wasn't easy, you know, because when you're first starting out, you have no credibility. My big mistake that we made was we thought the brokers were at our disposal. But the reality is they've got the keys to what you want. So that process took us 18 wants to find our first deal. And then from there after that first deal, we found our second deal three months later. And then six months after that we got our into our third deal. So that's the progression, you know, think big. Don't worry about, you know, starting but think big, but don't worry about starting small, you can start small, we only started with a 25 unit property split up between me Jake and my brother mark, that's an average of eight units each. But that first deal, you know, paved the way for the for the remainder of the portfolio?
Brian Briscoe 10:26
Yeah, a lot of a lot of great things in there that you said, You lost money, and you ended up paying for coaching. And I think that was that was a brilliant move. I think coaching myself, you know, I try dropped a large sum of money for coaching. And I was grateful for my wife, first of all, I approached her like, Hey, I really want to do this. It's a lot of money. And she looked at it, she looked at me, and she said, it's cheaper than a master's degree. That's it. That's exactly what you're getting. Okay. Yeah, you know, it's just like, and I was, I was so grateful that she said that, because, you know, I was I was worried about the cost. I was worried about all that stuff. It's like, it's cheaper than a master's degree, and it's gonna save us money in the long run. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, she understands. Yes. And I had the same experiences. You had a coach looking over my shoulder and saying, you may want to think twice about that one, or did you see this? Or did you look at that? Or, you know, so a lot, a lot of stuff going on there. And we experienced the same thing with with our first deal. Yeah, at first, it was me working alone. But it took us collectively, about the same amount of time be the first deal. And deal number two, three, and four came in quick succession afterwards. So it's that credibility that gets you over there. But that's awesome. I appreciate all of that and resonates a lot with me, I I've got two kids that are college age one that took a gap year because it COVID but one that she's actually the podcast editor, but she's a I think she's a junior right now and University of Utah. But, you know, I bought a house thinking same thing as you that this will pay for my daughter's education. And 10 years later, that house didn't quite pan out. That's kind of gave me proof of concept, but it wasn't producing the income to be able to pay for the education that I thought it would. But anyway, that said a lot of a lot of similarities there. I love everything you said about that. And coaching mentorship, I think is worth its weight in gold worth every penny. So that said, let's talk specifically about some of the either one of the deals you've done, or you kind of the idea of what you guys are looking for for new investments.
Gino Barbaro 12:30
Let's talk first what we're looking for in the framework as I think it's important, let's let's lay that ground that groundwork. The first thing is the buyer right? The managed right in the finance, right? We came up with this because when we first started, we were scatterbrained, we didn't know really what to focus on. And we call it the three legged stool. Everybody make a mental picture and write down the buy, right? First thing is yes, what does buy right mean? Think of a wheelbarrow picture that you have two legs in the back. That's the buying the finance, they got to be fixed. once they're done, they're done. Then you've got the wheel of the wheelbarrow that's in constant motion, whether you're self managing, like us, we're vertically integrated, or your third party property management, that is a day to day, right. So the buy right? Think about it. Yeah, what are your parameters for us, when we bought we had the market because Jake was living there, you need to select the market and select especially your first starting out select one tops two markets, because you need to know what the expenses are in the market. You need to know what the income is in the market, you need to create broker relationships. You need to go out and do property tours. If you're in three different markets and you're starting out you're not going to become really granular. You need to know what median income is of where you're buying these deals very important. Then set your criteria. What are you willing to do? We just had one strategy when we started out, we were buying hold this forever? Well, you know what, all of a sudden, we're writing a book now it's called creative cash is launching in two weeks. Are you going to owner finance deals can use creative financing into this part of the market cycle you can because all of a sudden, that's going to be very difficult. Are you going to be fixing and flipping nothing wrong with that with the smaller deals, you can buy a 1020 unit fix flip it and get into a bigger deal? Are you going to be syndicating right? Or are you going to be buying for yourself So figure out what your strategy is and you know Jake and Gino we teach them all because we've gone through all of them and every deal is different. underwrite a deal if it doesn't work normally see if it works creatively, right, underwrite a deal if it doesn't work as a syndication, maybe that works as a partnership. So be flexible, but learn all of the strategies. And then obviously, the next component is what do you what are your what's your rate of return? What are you looking for? Look at what the cost of capital is, what is the debt on going to be 3%? And what are you looking to return to investors, you yourself know the 670 percent. So if your cost of capital is around 10%, guess what? You need a 10% cash on cash return or you need the pro forma that the 10% at least right? So figure out what your components are, figure out what your debt coverage ratio is, your cap rate going in and going out and then you know your cash on cash. So that's the buy rate, figure out what your buy rate is for you learn all of this business strategies are all tools in the toolbox, pull them out and look at every specific deal because when you have That groundwork, that foundation you'll be able to underwrite more deals and look at more deals and make more deals viable. Right? The next part is the Manage right where you just gonna have to go out and either learn how to manage these deals yourself or get third party property management. That's another discussion in of itself. And finally, the finance right portion. We started out with community banks, we started out with owner financing our first deal plus we use community banks. And then from there, we just got big that credibility and we started leveraging ourselves up to agency. Nice,
Brian Briscoe 15:27
nice and I agree there there was a little discussion that I had with a lot of people the other day about, what's the most important thing you know, is it the buying Is it the managing or what but I love your framework, they're they're all important is the answer. They're all important you know? And it's kind of one of those you know, chicken and egg you know, scenarios you know, which one's more important to you and the buying or the financing but I love the framework. I mean, it's hard to recover from not buying right it's hard to recover from not financing right and it's hard to make money if you're not managing right i think i think you're absolutely right takes all three and if you do all three you're gonna kill it in this business. I
Gino Barbaro 16:03
think Brian, do you mind if I just share that most recent deal we did showing the buyer that that framework, and people get an idea of it. So through the Jake Gino community, we had a broker when on our website, Google realtors and she saw Jake and Gino she calls me up, off market deal. It was a USDA loan that they had just purchased, it was coming off the USDA loan, it was a 48 unit deal. All about the buyer right managed right and financed, right, it was a little bit small for us. But it was 20 minutes away from one of our other properties. So it was easy to manage, we're going to be able to manage this property, it is in our wheelhouse. It is a value add component, which is what we're looking for a 1980s build. So it was a new enough in this part of the cycle, which we liked. We loved the location, median income was great, right behind the lows chick fil a was right down the street. So we loved all of those components, the value add component was rents were 400. Now rents are at 700 plus rubs. So we know we had that the problem with the property was it was a heavy lift. So at 48 units, we had the office, which we're now converting now to two more units. So we're going to bring it up to 50 units, there's another value add component where there's enough space, we're gonna get a studio and we're gonna get a two bedroom, that's going to add about another 2000 bucks a month in income. So yeah, 2000 times 12 months, it's 24,000. At a six cap rate, you're going to see how much value you're going to add on that. It's tremendous. But the problem with property was we needed to go buy it all cash. And then what we did is we bought it all cash. So at 48 units, we paid 1,000,009 70. So I'm trying to think of what it came out per door 50 times chicken, who came out and came out to about 40,000 a unit put up 40,000 a door. And what we had to do was once we bought it, we went to the art community bank, and we refinanced it to an 80% loan to cost. So 80% of the rehab budget was in in this loan. And that's part of the finance right, the finance rate was done properly, the buy rate was done properly at 40. A door, we estimated about $5,000 per unit in repairs. So that would bring up our cost basis to around $45,000 per unit. Now we're fortunate that we've been doing this for a little while. So we bought in September, by December, all 50 units had been rehabbed, we spent about 3000 a door we had to do new new roofs and new driveways. So we're into it for less than what we thought we were into it maybe for around 43 44,000 per unit. rents went from 400 up to 700. That's the mandroid portion manager a portion is just taking care of all this magic that's going on whether you're like I said you're doing the construction, you're rehabbing it, you're actually putting in new tenants new qualified tenants in there. And within three and a half to four months, you've got an asset that was worth around 45,000 a door now it's worth probably going to reevaluate itself reappraise for around 70,000 a door. So now in the next two months, it stabilized, we're going to let it season for a couple of more months, that just means we're just gonna let the operations go, we're gonna go to our community bank and refi all of our money out and then some
Brian Briscoe 18:51
nice, nice now are you guys still buy and hold investors? Are you guys? are you guys looking to exit in this in like, say three or five years?
Gino Barbaro 18:57
You know, Brian, with what's going on right now you're seeing inflation? Well, inflation is just really basic printing money. And what what happens when there's inflation, you're going to have prices increase. And I think there's going to be a significant amount of inflation next couple of years and the way that these bandits are all printing money, like it's toilet paper, I think holding these assets with this inflation, I think it's gonna be probably be smarter, I love the buy and hold, we flipped a few smaller assets, because we've just, it's really the ROI, the return on equity, when you buy an asset for 30 a door and it's worth 70 a door, sometimes you can't refinance it, because you're gonna put too much debt on there, you're not gonna be able to cash flow, sometimes it's better to repurpose that capital and bring it into another deal. So like I said, looking at deals specific, base by base, if it makes sense to refinance that when we will, if it makes sense to sell it, we have and we will, I think if you can find a deal right now, and you can use cost segregation, and you can really, you know, refinance that money out, sort of tax free because you're basically taking a loan out to yourself and repurposing it to another asset. That's the strategy we're looking for because it's difficult right now to find deals and if you can find a great deal And you don't have to worry about, you know, hey, inflation occurs, great your assets going to elevate. And if it doesn't, you've got a cash flowing asset. So for us, if the opportunity presents itself where we can't cash flow, because it's just not able to refi it out, we will sell it.
Brian Briscoe 20:14
Yeah, so good. Good to know. I mean, it's one of those things where there's a lot of different ways to make money. And I think he's remaining flexible in in times like this is is also important. So when you're when you're going into it, I mean, you're refinancing out so you can finance right a second time. Yeah. If you have to, you can look at what's going on at the moment, and say, Hey, right now, it makes sense to get a five year loan or a 12 year loan, or
Gino Barbaro 20:41
Yeah, but So Brian, it's important that you say that, because one of the things with finance, right? Right. Now, if we do have this crazy inflation, you know, the Fed may have to raise rates to take it under control. So if you're able to lock in long term, fixed rate financing at 3%, or three and a half, or sub three, that's really cheap. It's really, really important. And your mentor told me, you know, the other day I actually used speaking to him, he said, cash flow will get you out of your job, equity will keep you out of your job. So those events, those equity events, whether you're refining the deal, or selling the deal, those nice checks will keep you out, and we'll continue to have you grow your portfolio.
Brian Briscoe 21:18
I like that. I like that. That's a different way of looking at it. But equity will keep you out of your job who love it. So good enough. So let's ask one question real quick. What's the big burning? Why you talked a little bit about you know, the reasons behind it, if you can distill it down, you know, what is your big burning? Why?
Gino Barbaro 21:35
So for me, when I started at the restaurant, I was chasing money, and I was always worried about making money. And that's where every small business owner, that's what's on their mind. My wife were married 22 years, August 13 1998. She was financially free. She hasn't had to worry about money since since we were married. Right? That was my burning desire. And when I became when I became financially free with real estate, and that was my portfolio paying cash flow owner draws passively. I said, I need another challenge. I want to do something I love life coaching. I love giving back. And that's my big why we can all say family and all and that's that's important. And I ultimately want to be the role model for my kids. I want my kids to look up at me and run around the house go Jake and Gino, Jake and Gino. I love that, right. That's that to me, you get a little bit more humble, right, but it makes you feel great. But at the end of the day, I'm just out there trying to help as many people as possible. This is a great feeling. When you have over 40 students quitting their w two is when you've got students closing over 13,000 units with a billion dollars in assets. That's a great feeling. And to be able to do that and to be able to create those relationships and get into the Toastmasters call last night with all the students and share stuff with them. That's really powerful. that's ultimately what my Why isn't just to become a role model to my kids and to show them that. Good guys don't finish last. We're all taught that that's not true. I'm a pretty good guy and I am not last right now. But that's the burning. That's the burning thought that everyone thinks of and you know, by reading Stephen Covey, it's all about character ethic versus personality ethic. I want to embody that character ethic where I principles and I have integrity, right. And I'm responsible, I want to teach my kids that. And I wasn't doing that at the restaurant, but through Jake and Gino and through the real estate, I think I'm doing a pretty good good job of doing that. So I hope that I hope I answered that question.
Brian Briscoe 23:19
No, that's absolutely perfect. And incidentally, my wife and I got married about four weeks before you and your wife got married. So yeah, we're saying we started looking at time and kids in college. I mean, everything just lines up almost almost. And my
Gino Barbaro 23:33
daughter pot my daughter edits about our podcast too. So that's pretty
Brian Briscoe 23:37
nice. Nice. Nice. Maybe I'll have my daughter reach out to your daughter and they can compare Wow, that's awesome. What are you doing? Your dad says this, you know, but just kidding. Lana? Just kidding. But that's great. So Gina, last question for you before Aubrey Joey on what's next for you?
Gino Barbaro 23:54
That is a great question. Just continue to plug away. We're trying to buy deals like everybody else and we're not going to overpay. You have to be diligent with the buy right? When everyone else is out there buying these prices. They're underwriting at a different metric than we are they may need just maybe a three or four cap because they've got institutional money. We don't have that we have a different we're playing with our own money. So for us, just underwriting as many deals as possible, talking to as many brokers and having as many events with Jake and Gino and just trying to continue to sign up students and grow that platform.
Brian Briscoe 24:24
All right, awesome. Now and you are you back to live events now. Are you doing virtual? No, we've
Gino Barbaro 24:28
been doing live events the whole year. Even last year, we had our crack camps going on just you know, being safe and going to Tennessee and Atlanta was more conducive. And they were they weren't really shut down. So
Brian Briscoe 24:37
nice. Nice. Nice. Awesome. Well, let's transition really quick. We're gonna bring Joey on the show. He's a real estate investor with 16 years of construction and project management experience. He's an officer in the US Naval construction force, combat veteran, graduate of the active duty passive income University and a member of their mastermind. He's a project manager renovation and construction lead and an investment That said, Joey Hey, welcome to the show.
Joey Biccum 25:02
Hey, Brian, thanks for having me, Gino, good to see you.
Brian Briscoe 25:05
Enjoy. You know, once you just I told you this before, but you know, from one veteran from one service to another, just gotta say thanks for your service. Thanks for all you do. You know, and I know there's there's a lot of things we have in common, as far as you know, trying to get out of the service now. But why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself about your background and what got you into the path towards more like family?
Joey Biccum 25:24
Sure. So 16 years active duty Navy, former enlisted guy put on a commission roughly two years ago went from being out on the deck plates and getting my hands dirty to being stuck behind a computer sending emails all day. I like to tell my wife that, you know, the first 10 years of the Navy was for me getting to do all the fun stuff in the last 10 to 14 years is more for them. Yeah, financial side. So that's okay with me, as long as as Mama's happy, I guess, is good. You know,
Brian Briscoe 25:55
I told my wife, I'll go out and earn a paycheck for the first 20 years and then I'll be a stay at home dad, and she can earn a paycheck for the next 20. That's, that's what we said. But, you know, I don't think I'll stop working, you know, six months from now when I retire. But yeah, cool. Cool. So yeah, tell us more. Keep going. Sorry about that
Joey Biccum 26:14
on the on the real estate side. So we were a young married couple, we bought our first house in Virginia Beach, add some babies, you know, just really became emotionally attached to this first home of ours. And like everybody in the military, you're only in a certain place for a certain amount of time. And we had a move. And we didn't really have enough equity built in the house to sell it to make a profit. And we had that emotional attachment. So hey, let's see if we can rent this thing out. So we started to rent it out. And you know, three, four years into the rental process, we had picked up a couple other rental rental properties along the way. All were doing good cash flowing, well paying for themselves, putting some some change in the pocket. Nice. And then one of my renters wanted to buy the house. So I started to dig into some books and do some research and ended up brokering a deal with one of my renters and did it all for sale by owner and just quickly became fascinated with all things real estate, the tax benefits the loan, pay down the depreciation, all those things. And it just further, you know, intrigued me to start going deeper and deeper into this industry. Yeah, fast forward a couple years, we're down in Panama City Beach, and I'm getting ready to leave to go do a commissioning school. Hurricane Michael hits and wreaks havoc on Bay County. And I wasn't able to get somebody into to the house for some time. And that's when you know, the light bulb went off is what happens if this hap continues to happen. I didn't really have a fallback plan. And every day I go to work, I see these two 300 unit apartment complex, and would ask myself who owns these things, you know, and then started to dive in a little bit deeper and found the world of multifamily investing. The active duty passive income team jumped on there with them became one of the very first members of that multifamily Academy and mastermind. And, you know, we've been been grinding for the last year and a half on a personal perspective, doing the education and understanding and then I continue to learn that you can't do this by yourself. There's no way you can take this stuff down by herself. So I reached out to a close friend of mine, who actually would have been on your show Brian Ramsay Blankenship. He's in Bahrain right now, in Bahrain right now we're ready for him to get back and start doing a little bit more work on the real focus side. And I asked him where he wasn't in his journey and what he's got going on, because he had a couple rental properties as well. And like minded people, you know, we kind of chew on the same dirt. And we kind of struck a struck a deal. And we brought in a third member that that Randy was already partnered with, and we built real focus. So for the last six months, we've been really laying the groundwork, the foundation, the systems, and really building the brand, and getting ourselves out there jumping on podcasts and making ourselves known inside this network of what we are what we're looking for, and where we want to take this thing in the next, you know, seven, eight years and beyond.
Brian Briscoe 29:23
Nice, nice adpi You know, they're a really good group. If you're active duty or veteran or the military and you don't know about them, check them out. Got a lot of good stuff going on. I know a lot of you actually a lot of people from the ADP group have been on this podcast. So anyway, really good group. So anybody listening who falls into that category, check them out. So Joey, one quick question for you. What is your big burning Why?
Joey Biccum 29:46
So I think it boils down to time. deployed nine, nine times so far, and that's four and a half years, almost five years when you you know, take the travel in there. I've been away from Christmases And birthdays and home cooked meals and things like that. I don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to, you know, leave my kids, I don't want to leave my wife, they're the most important people in my life. And when I walk away from the military, I don't want to have to do that anymore to them. So that's really what it boils down to is being able to provide for them, spend time with them when I want to on my own accord. And I'm just not going to trade my time to achieve somebody else's goals. Unless they're my wife's goals or my investors goals. I'll work for that.
Brian Briscoe 30:31
Good. Yeah, that that resonates so much with me. And I think one of the pivotal moments in my life was, you know, a day on a ship in the Middle East where it was a birthday. And I was missing a birthday again, you know, and it was just one of those. I vowed that day to change, you know, and every once in a while when you when you feel that pain, it drives you to do things that you wouldn't normally do. And that's that's what happened to me and I see the same thing. Same thing going on with you. So
Gino Barbaro 30:58
Brian, it comes down to fear. When you have fear you don't act but when you have anger, anger turns into action. So it's okay to be afraid. We've all been afraid. I was afraid to leave the restaurant you were afraid to like to take the next step. But that anger, don't be afraid to be angry. I mean, don't be angry for the rest your life for those first few moments that will you know, kickstart you.
Brian Briscoe 31:16
Oh, it did. It did. It was a cathartic moment to I don't write very often, but I just sat down the computer and just started writing things down. And I've got to save somewhere, but it's just like, I hate missing stuff. I hate I don't want to miss my kid's birthday. I don't want to miss Halloween. I don't want to miss Christmas. And that's when I realized, I've got to change, you know, I'm going to continue to miss all this stuff. Unless I figure out a way to change it. And that's Incidentally, that's the straight out of the Stephen Covey you know, proactive. First things first, put the end in mind, you know, begin with the end in mind. But anyway, so Joey, here comes my favorite part. We got Gino on the line here. What do you want to ask him?
Joey Biccum 31:54
So I want to kind of take this in the route of raising capital. If that's alright with you, Gino Sure, kind of leverage some of your experience and really learn how to break through. So up until this point, real focus myself, Brandon and Ramsey. I think we've really maximized on our friends and family capital raising, we've made videos and made the phone calls. And then we're really starting to branch out into the unknown, if you will, inside of LinkedIn and social media. So connecting with people on LinkedIn and following up with phone calls and direct messages and things of that nature. But I used to go to a lot of Ria meetings locally. You know, I like to meet people I like to shake hands have a beer, things like that. But right now, Dan, in the military, as well, as one of my partners, we have a lot of restrictions on us as far as what we can and what we can't do because of the covid 19 pandemic. So in your experience, you know, in the last, I guess a year now we've been in this this world, what have you found as one of the most successful methods for networking with those high net worth individuals, to bring them over to your team and be excited about what you guys have going on.
Gino Barbaro 33:05
So for us, it's a little bit different. We have the Jake and Gino platform. So what I would say to you is get on as many podcasts as you can. Maybe you get onto podcasts, who focus on accredited investors, or you have a doctor who has a podcast and you're talking about your experience and saying I am a capital raiser. The next thing is create content. Start writing a blog. I mean, I I'm early, I would say prolific. But I've been writing about a blog a week for the last couple months. You want people start visiting your website, if you've got a website, make sure it's SEO optimized, make sure you've got a blog writing up and I've got students who are writing blogs for me now. So I'm not the one who's writing blogs, I've got content coming out from students. I've got coaches writing content for me. So if you can think about getting that all together a year, 18 months, two years down the road, you may have a book together that is the best business cards you could possibly have is by writing a book that may be premature, but let me plant that seed because there are so many people out there writing books right now. Next thing is maybe start your own podcast. There are 1000s of podcasts are starting every day. And it's not just to generate, like I said or monetize it gives you the credibility gives you the platform. We've got four shows we've got the multifamily zone, which I do with my wife, which is fantastic. I get to make fun of my wife for 30 minutes. I mean, how much fun is that? Right? It's all about spouses connections and communication and partnering. But that's a brand for us like Jake and Gino is a family brand, right. And that's why I do that podcast. It's really to uplift the brand and to give a different side of it right to expand the brand. Right. Then we do the movers and shakers, which is our podcasts where we highlight our students. Then we do a rain care one which is more focused on syndication, raising capital. Then we have the flagship wheelbarrow profits, we started with wheelbarrow profits five years ago, it was just Jake and Gino, the drug rep and the pizza guy, that that's how we started by that first show and we've grown so to get out there and try to create as much content as you can and try to post on LinkedIn. That's Really, really powerful. And I think to have that mind shift. When you're out there raising capital and you're out there networking, you really need to think how can I serve the other side, because like you said, we all have part we everyone thinks that they're an entrepreneur that they don't have people they're working for. You're working for your family, but you're also working for your investors. So you all we all have bosses out there. So let's let's, and it's okay. But let's at least acknowledge that I'd rather work for my investors than work for a boss, I'm creating my own lifestyle, my own business, but going out there trying to create more content trying to get on more podcasts. When the pandemic started, we were doing on every Friday, we were doing weekly live zoom calls with our investors, if they had any questions they can get on Friday with our head of investor relations, Mike taravella. And then we were doing monthly webinars with them as well, just getting out with our investors and doing monthly webinars on the properties that we owned. Now, the tech tip and technique just to get out there become relevant. We also have a newsletter going out every month to all of our investors just to continue to add that content. So trying to be relevant, trying to put out content and trying to stay ahead of what's going on, I think will serve you.
Joey Biccum 36:02
That's great. That's a lot of a lot of good tidbits in there. And you know, looking at the three of us on this page, you got you got Gino who's in this industry and performing and has built this platform. And then Brian, you got you, you know forex capital, who's, like you said a couple years behind, behind Gino and then myself with real focus. We're really just starting to get our feet wet inside this game. And you have started a podcast, Brian. So I guess the next question I'm going to direct towards you. Since you've started the podcast, how much how much more interest and how much more approaching from investors? Have you seen providing that content that Gino just spoke so much about?
Brian Briscoe 36:40
I'll give you a two vignettes. I had a phone call this morning with somebody that I'd never met before. And he showed up with my blog article printed out. And he said, I've read all of your blogs, I listened to a bunch of podcasts. I have a couple of questions for you. Alright, and he was ready to invest. You know. So that is his one. One vignette right there from about three hours ago, about a week and a half ago, another phone call with somebody that I've never met before he reaches out to me through LinkedIn somewhere in the phone call say hey, I want to tell you a little bit about myself. He's like, I've listened to every single one of your podcast episodes. I've heard you here. I've heard you there. He's like, I know you already. Mm hmm. So you know, it takes a while to get to that point. And for us, it's only a couple of examples. But it's gonna snowball, you know, and I hear that more often. Now, the longer the podcast has been out. And the more blog articles that we push out, the more frequently I get phone calls like that. So
Gino Barbaro 37:43
that's called you know what that's called, that's called Inception from the great Oren klaff. What Brian's doing is, he is making it seem as if it's their idea to invest with him, because they're already ready. And they're ready to put money down because they know Brian, they know like and trust him because they've heard him. And is there a little bit of legwork on the front end? Absolutely. It's going to take a little bit of time to build this absolutely. But you will see the fruits of your labor, because I can add a quick story to that. Also, we had multifamily mastery. Three back in 2019, we had a live event, all the families there 500 participants are there. I had an investor call me a couple weeks after we were raising money for a deal. And he's like, I don't really need to know numbers. I just wanted to meet you and hear you. I know who you are. So it really really works. When you're out there sharing stuff. It's the seek to serve mentality. That's what Brian is exhibiting in that because he's out there serving people and writing articles and creating content. And at the same time he's sharing his story and he's creating his brand.
Brian Briscoe 38:38
It's helped tremendously is the answer. Mm hmm.
Joey Biccum 38:42
Awesome. So, back to you, Gina, this one I'm going to throw your way. So you know, I guess in every investors career throughout a year or so there's laws where deals aren't coming across the desk, things start to slow down a little bit. But now you've identified that potential investor through the content and the podcasts and things of those nature that we've started to build over the last years that we have going on. How do you keep them engaged, excited and educated during those laws, so they're not leaving your network and jumping on to the next best guy, you know, essentially investor shopping?
Gino Barbaro 39:20
It's a great question because that's where we are right now. We're in that mode right now. And we do quarterly webinars with our with our investors right now. If we need to really engage them, I would step it up the monthly let them know what's going on with the property that monthly newsletters also another great touch point. Maybe every now and again doing a live doing a live zoom with them or live GoToWebinar, getting them on and just discussing what's going on. And what I would also do have calls with your investors. That's why we had to create brand partners. We have over 1000 people in our investor database, Jake and I could not do that on our own. We had to hire a head of investor relations, getting on the call with these people because they want to hear what's going on and when you're on there be genuine find out what their goals are find out what their Looking for and let them know, because I think what Stephen Covey talks about in the book, it's all about trust. If they trust you, they will do business with you. And they will stick with you through thick and thin through the ups and downs, and letting them know that hey, deal flow is not great right now. And I'm not going to risk your capital or my capital just to be able to place it. Have patience with me, let them know that let them know what's going on in the market. Let them know what's going on in the specific city that you're investing in. Let them know about the job growth, about the population growth, being educated yourself, and letting them know and letting them know when the opportunity comes. We're going to present that to you.
Brian Briscoe 40:36
I think that's a perfect answer to just keep keep putting out that information. keeping warm, loving,
Joey Biccum 40:42
awesome. Another one that I have is from, from your standpoint, what would you say makes up or what key attributes Do you expect a capital raiser to have to be successful and then an investor is looking for I think he kind of touched on it on the trust on the trust point through the Stephen Covey books, and I have had an opportunity to go through the speed of trust as his son's workshops, which have been super beneficial both on a professional level with the Navy on a personal level, inside of the real estate industry. But I'd like to get your take on it.
Gino Barbaro 41:16
For me, reading Stephen Covey, I'm halfway through it, it really comes down to the character ethic versus the personality ethic. You see all these gurus on with the personality ethic after World War One, the character ethic we go into the industrial age, and all of a sudden, it's all flashy, it's all about how many deals you're closing, and we're not working on the character. If you are going to be a person who's taking capital from other people, you need to have character, you need to have integrity, you need to know what their goals are. And you need to adopt the mindset of same side selling. What does that mean? It's really finding impact together? If I see, you know that Joey, you have your last $25,000, and you're gonna invest in the deal with me, and it's a risky deal. Maybe that's not a good fit. We have to be a good fit together. That's how we have to think and I think a lot of syndicators out there don't think that way, they're looking at acquisition fees, they're looking at it for themselves, you have to take your step out, you're the last person you're looking at. There's an acronym that we've created a Jake and Gino, we've trademarked it, it's a spy technique. And what is the spy technique? It's negotiation, it's seller property in you, when you're analyzing a deal, the way you get a deal is by looking at what the seller has what the sellers needs are, then it's the property and ultimately you You're the last person so you're always the last person in this in this equation. That's really important. And there's three questions that you need to ask yourself, when you're raising capital, that other person can they trust you? Do they know you? And can you help them if your opportunity can help the other side, great game on if not, your, your your things, don't align your objectives don't align, get out of it and don't raise the capital go on to the next person. And you know, hey, Joey, if it doesn't fit for you, you have anybody that you can recommend that would love to look at this deal. That's what you do. And if you can keep that I know short term is really hard. I know out there, you need an extra 200 grand to raise the deal. But if you get into a partnership with a bad investor, who has expectations that aren't set, if you're saying to him, I need your capital for the next five to seven years, but he's looking to exit in 24 months, guess what, when 24 months comes up, he or she is going to be a huge headache. You don't want that. So curb that, on the front end, try to find impact together with your investors.
Brian Briscoe 43:25
I'll add another vignette. And this is something that happened two years ago, there's there's a guy and if he listened to this, he's gonna remember this story. But we were at a big convention. And it was the first time I met him in person, we had corresponded, we had talked on the phone a couple of times, but he approaches me and says, Hey, I want to invest in your next deal. Like, will you waive your minimum? I don't have you know, I only have this much will you waive your minimum? And I said, Yeah, sure, no problem. Then I walked back into the next meeting, whatever, you know, things started going up again, I just started thinking I walked back out, you know, an hour later, I found him and I said, hey, look, I'm not gonna let you invest with us. And he looked at me, he's like, what? Like, you want to syndicate? Like, you don't have the minimum amount right now you want to syndicate? Mike, you're gonna need that money for your earnest money deposit for your risk capital for all of this other stuff. don't invest it with us, keep it so that you can invest in you. And what I didn't realize happened is he has been he's partnered with us twice now. He's raised capital. He's brought a million dollars to our deals. And it's just one of those things where had I just said, Yep, sure, took his money. I mean, we would probably have a little bit different relationship right now. But end of the day, you know, that kind of solidified a relationship that we had already been building. And you know, I'd do anything for him and he'd probably do anything for us. So it's one of those things that yeah, I think the character And oh, by the way that Stephen Covey book is still one of my favorite I think I've either read or listened to it 20 times through but I will
Gino Barbaro 45:00
Wish I'd found that earlier. I don't know why I guess I wasn't ready for it. I read it years ago and you when you're not ready for something in life, it just doesn't resonate with you and I go back. I'm like, I read everything else. Let me find Oh, it's on the shelf. Oh,
Brian Briscoe 45:11
yeah, you know, I totally agree the first time I read Think and Grow Rich, I was not ready for it. read a chapter. I was like, This is better crap.
Gino Barbaro 45:18
Yes, I read it the first three times that there was a bunch of crap. It took me up to three times the fourth time it hit with me so yeah, so
Brian Briscoe 45:24
anyway, that said, we are just about out of time. So one last question for both of you. And you know, you go first. What's the best way listeners can learn more about you?
Gino Barbaro 45:34
Oh, just go to Jake and Gino Comm. You'll see the podcasts you'll see the blogs and mean if anyone wants to reach out to me at Gino at Jake and Gino calm I'll send out a PDF copy of our new book creative cash, I'll send out a copy PDF of our honeybee so just hit me up at Gino at Jake and Gino calm.
Brian Briscoe 45:50
And they've got all their podcasts videos on YouTube and everywhere you can find I think your YouTube videos are awesome, too. I mean to work in property. I mean, I love it. I love it. I actually I actually told my daughter Mikey, we're going to do videos just like this. We're going to steal their wheelbarrow too. But we're not going to do that. I don't have a wheelbarrow in my name, otherwise I wouldn't. But all right, Joey, same question for you. how can listeners learn more about you?
Joey Biccum 46:15
So you can jump on our website, www dot real focus.org send me an email at Joey at real focus.org or one of the best ways to get a hold of me is just get me on the cell phone and my numbers 228-224-2655
Brian Briscoe 46:31
All right. And for everyone listening, we're gonna put that information in the show notes. So if you want to contact either one of them, don't worry about writing down just head down the show notes and it'll all be there magically. Thank you too, for coming on the show. I've really appreciated it. This has been the highlight of my week, and I'm serious. So appreciate your guys's time,
Gino Barbaro 46:49
Joey. Brian, thanks for having us on and just everyone out there. Let's go out there. Make it happen.
Brian Briscoe 46:54
Make it happen.
Joey Biccum 46:56
Thanks, guys. Appreciate your time.
Brian Briscoe 47:03
Thank you for listening to the direction apartment investor podcast today brought to you by four oaks capital. If you'd like to know more about how to invest in apartment buildings you want to be a guest in our show, visit our website at four oaks capital comm slash podcast or email us directly. If you're still listening, you obviously like the show. So pull your phone out, subscribe, and leave us a five star rating on your favorite podcast app. And we'll see you again next week.