Adding Value as a GP with Timothy Lyons and Dan Fradenburgh

Episode 174 of the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast with Timothy Lyons and Dan Fradenburgh. Transcript by – please forgive any errors.

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Brian Briscoe 0:00

That's Dan, we got Tim on the line here, where you want to ask him

Dan Fradenburgh 0:03

that I hear that most capys will require a financial commitment from everyone on the GP team as a proxy for demonstrating commitment. What have you guys found out that you have any thoughts about that?

Timothy Lyons 0:16

Yeah, I think it all just comes down to negotiation. And there's a billion ways to set up any kind of partnership, right. So you know, commercial real estate, and specifically multifamily is a team sport. There's no two ways about it. There's a ton of people that have strengths. With that being said, You know, I know somebody who is a marketing guru expert, and she gets her GP by doing marketing and social media and automations. And, you know, all that stuff. So, I would just say that anything is negotiable. Within real estate, there's always a way to set up a partnership.

Brian Briscoe 1:04

Welcome to the diary of an apartment investor podcast. I'm your host Briscoe with four oaks capital. I'm super excited for today's show. It's another one of our Ask the Expert episodes, to great people on the line with us. We have Tim Lyons and Dan fradenburgh. So first off, you know, Tim, you're up first. Welcome to the show. Hey, Brian.

Timothy Lyons 1:47

Hey, Dan, thanks for having me on the show. super happy to be here. But yeah, I mean, I got into real estate, like a lot of people because, you know, it was one of those things that I always knew that I should be doing. It's one of those things that I never thought that I could necessarily do, because I didn't know how to get involved. I saw a lot of people, whether it's social media, or friends and family, you know, have some success with real estate. But in my mind, I think real estate had a marketing problem. To me, real estate investing was like, you know, get into real estate investing, go to a seminar, and then you're driving a Maserati within six months, and that I just like that was always in the back of my mind. And then also growing up in the Greater New York City area. It just didn't seem possible to even purchase a single family property, and be able to cash flow. And you know, the more I started to ask questions to different people, you know, if anybody ever said they were a real estate investor, I was like, their best friend for the next 30 minutes. You know, a lot of times people would say, Well, I bought this property in New York City, or just outside of New York City. And, you know, I pay X amount per month just to float it. And, you know, that's what, that's what real estate investing was to me. And that's why it seems so unattainable for a long, long time. So you know, I go to college just like a good boy, right? I get good grades, and I go to a good school and get a good job. And I actually love my job. I am thrilled to be a New York City firefighter. I actually worked as a lieutenant now in the borough of Queens. And I've been doing that 16 years, it's been a lifelong dream of mine. You know, it kind of started when I was eight or nine years old, I had a police scanner that Santa Claus bought for Christmas one year, and I attached it to my bike, and I used to like race all over town trying to chase the fire engine, but I never really grew out of that 911 happened and I had a, you know, I was a sophomore in college. And my uncle was a captain in the New York City Fire Department. And he was buried under one of the towers. And luckily, he was deemed the one of the last people to be pulled out alive. Wow, he's still with us today. And I think that day, on top of everything else that happened that day, I just really told myself, like, you know, at the time, I wanted to be a doctor, except that I was pre med for about 15 minutes. Because that's how hard it was. And I wasn't ready to be a student. But you know, that day I told myself, you know, I don't care what I do. I'm going to finish college and I'm going to be a New York City firefighter. And I graduated on May 15. of Oh, five and may 31 205. I'm in the academy in New York City. So it's funny how that happens. But yeah, so that I mean, it's been a great career. I've worked in some of the busiest fire houses in the city. I'm addicted to the action. My wife hates that, you know, she wants me to go to some cozy place and kind of put my feet up, I guess, but I'm just, I'm not ready for that. You know, but like most firefighters, you know, a lot of us have second jobs because we work 24 hours on then we have maybe two three, sometimes four days off. So a lot of guys can sit still like myself and they're plumbers or their roofers or contractors and I really don't have any of those skills. So I actually went back to, to nursing school to become a registered nurse. And a lot of guys, you know, in my firehouse, it was for them, who were nurses, they had the nice cars, their wives didn't work. They always had steady, you know, side work if they wanted it. So that made sense to me. And at the time, I was debating whether to get my real estate license, or go to nursing school. And I think my limiting beliefs and my scarcity mindset at the time was such that I wanted to get that paycheck every two weeks. Yeah, I wanted to put my hours in, and I wanted to have that known and saved and secure paycheck. And, you know, wasn't everything happens for a reason. But, you know, over time, I ended up having three girls, they're 1072 now, and I was working 70 8090 hours a week, up until maybe a year and a half ago. And my wife was feeling it, I was feeling it. My girls were feeling it. And I said something has to change. And that kind of goes into my why right? why I did this. But you know, real estate was always a thing that I wanted to learn more about. And then I finally just took the gloves off, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the beach on summer vacation, you know, one, one summer to summer of 19. And from then on out, I got into real estate.

Brian Briscoe 6:15

Nice, nice. Now, I gotta say that there's a lot of things we have in common. I was also a college student on 911 and I had no real plans to go active duty in the military. So I made a career shift. You know, the moment I saw those those towers go down I was much further away from the action than you but so I gotta say thank you for doing what you do. I mean, Fire Department in New York City is probably one of the toughest jobs you know, there is definitely understand you know, your your wife's point of view as well. You know, wanting you to have that nice safe job or you're not running into burning buildings. But appreciate what you do and happy happy to hear your story I that's that's a lot a lot of goodness so so you Rich Dad Poor Dad jump into to jump into real estate. Take it take it from there. Tell us how you proceeded Aaron, how you started getting apartments under contract and close.

Timothy Lyons 7:06

Yeah, so Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I stayed in my firehouse overnight bag for over a year. And I never read it. And I finally broke on vacation I read in two days, I couldn't put it down. And just like a lot of real estate investors that kind of have that similar, you know, story with Rich Dad, Poor Dad type on the beach that day. And I said, babe, I said, I'm going to be a real estate investor. And she knows that I can't sit still she knows I'm always on to the next thing. And she's always been supportive. And she goes, you know, sure, Tim, you know, whatever you say, you know, by November of 19, I had a three family property under contract. And that's how I got my initial start into real estate. You know, we started I did a lot of Renault, we did an Aruba for whatever, you know, and we started cash flowing, you know, for the first you know, a couple of months. And, you know, we had that with a proof of concept started to creep in the not only my mind, my wife's mind, and you're like, wait a minute, alright, this thing works. We did a little better on our taxes that year. And, you know, we said, All right, well, what are they going to take for us to, you know, attain some level of passive income where, you know, quote, unquote, financial freedom, and I kind of hate that term, but, you know, what is it gonna take, and it was gonna take, like, 20 of those three family properties. And that wasn't gonna happen, because, yep, not that it wasn't gonna happen. But I wasn't, it wasn't sexy enough to cover, it wasn't in front of me to the point where I said, I'm gonna make that happen. Because, you know, by and large, these buildings are built in 1900, or 1910, or 1820. I mean, and me personally, I only had capital really for like one more similar type purchase, and then I was gonna be tapped out for a while. So it just wasn't moving the needle for me, although I'm not taking anything away from the three families or the duplexes or the quads or the single family space. There's value there, but I just wanted more. And I had been down the rabbit hole of podcasts and books about multifamily. And I kept on hearing about it. But if it felt like something that wasn't for me, it was spreadsheets, it was team, it was boots on the ground, and I'm up here in New York. And I'm saying myself, how am I ever going to buy something in, you know, Florida, or Texas? Or Arizona? Like, how am I going to do that? It just seems so unattainable. And I also heard about people getting mentors and coaches and spending all sorts of money on that. And I always kind of joke around that I have a healthy dose of skepticism baked into my DNA being from New York, you know, yeah. And I was like, there's no way there's no way I'm going to pay for a coach, I can't Why would I ever pay for a coach, I could figure it out on my own. I'll ask somebody, I'll go to a meet up. And finally, I talked to my wife about it. I talked to my brother Greg, who's my business partner. And it just made sense, right? If you want to do something, especially while you're a W two worker, and you want to you want to do something that badly, you got to go find somebody who's successful at it, who's willing to teach you, whether that's paying for them interning for them working for free, whatever that might be, you know, there's a term out there adding value to somebody. I mean, that is a real thing. And finally, we just said Let's just pay for the coaching. And that's what we did. You know, we called around a bunch of different places, we finally settled on a platform that was just, you know, it just felt like it was home kind of, and we haven't looked back.

Brian Briscoe 10:14

Yeah, you know, and I made the same move. And I had the same skepticism, you know, it many years went to a lot of these conferences where they talked about coaching. But end of the day, I really settled in my wife made this point, you know, we looked at the price tag, and my wife just said, that's cheaper than a master's degree, you know, and I started thinking about it, and I started equating coaching to the master's degree, it's 100%, focused on exactly what you want to do. And it's cheaper than a master's degree. And for me, that was just like, the one those little lightbulb moments, you know, I think our educational system doesn't necessarily prepare us for the exact job we want to do. And coaching does, you know, coaching is focused, yeah, laser focused on exactly what you're trying to do, and in this case multifamily, so anyway, yeah, that's, that's, that's great. Love the investment you made in yourself. And please keep keep going, tell the tell the story keep keep getting into, you know, yeah, meals.

Timothy Lyons 11:13

So listen to this. Now. Now, it's March of 2020. It's like March 1, and we're hearing about COVID, we're seeing TV, the streets of Italy are, are empty, people are hanging out their balconies in Italy singing songs, and we're like, Man, what the heck is going on over, you know, over in Italy. And now all of a sudden, I'm joining the coaching program, and getting into multifamily real estate right at the beginning of COVID. It was probably the worst time, but you know what, like, people in this space will always tell you, there's never a great time to get started, right? If you're always gonna wait for that one little entry point, you know, it's like buying stocks, I'm gonna wait for the dip, you know, like, you're never really going to go in at the right time. So like, you just have to take action, you have to get started. And that's how I kind of viewed my entry into multifamily and the coaching program. So I'm at the Firehouse, COVID comes, I work in a very poor neighborhood, people stacked on top of people and the COVID goes wild, right? So we're doing CPR for 24 hours straight for about two months, every single run, but by and large is CPR, whether you're 30, or you're 90, and nobody's making it. You know, at the time, I have three little girls and my wife's like, dude, like, should you even be coming home, like we don't know a lot about this, you know, it was very kind of emotional type time in our in our house. So I moved out to my mother in law's house, and she moved into my house to help my wife with the brand new baby and everything. And for eight weeks, I stayed away from my kids. And instead of going into like a dark place and being upset about it, which I was obviously, I just crushed through all the material I could up at 5am in bed at midnight, you know, finally had the courage to call brokers call bankers call lenders call everybody it's, you know, if you're, if your name a number was out there on the World Wide Web, you were getting a phone call from me from from this first time investor, right? And all of a sudden, like, I guess I started getting a deal sent to me. And I remember telling my mentor Mike Yo, this works. And he's like, No kidding. Like, you just got to, you know, you got to do the action, you got to take the action and make the calls. So I got into my first deal with my deal, Coach, you know, with my, you know, I'm in the Jake and Gino program. And my my deal coach was a New Yorker, and we just kind of we just kind of hit it off with each other. And he gave me the opportunity of a lifetime, he was doing a syndication on a 43 unit property. And he said to me, You know, I was always asking him, how can I add value to you? How can I add value to what, you know, what do you need me to do? I'll mow the lawn, I'll do whatever I got to do, how can I add value. And he finally you know, he asked me if I wanted to come on board and kind of see the back end of the syndication process, because quite honestly, when I joined the program, it wasn't for syndication, it was to do 612 2030 unit properties, with my brother and my dad and maybe like another, you know, partner, syndication was not even on the radar. So once I kind of saw how it worked, and I was just, I fell in love with the whole process number one, number two, it gave me a chance to come out of my comfort zone and see if I could raise a little bit of money to to help the deal along. And I didn't know if I could raise, you know, $10 10,000 I had no idea what I could raise. And we ended up raising about 150,000 for the first deal. And I couldn't believe it. And that was really, you know, Michael Blanc always talks about the law of the first deal. And that is true, like, because the minute you're on the map, you know, now you're on the map and people want to know how you did it. And then the next deal comes along, hey, let's work together. You know, and that's really how that snowball kind of started to throw back to you, Brian. See what you think. Yeah,

Brian Briscoe 14:49

yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot of goodness there. I mean, first, first of all, the law the first deal, you know, we found that to be absolutely true, you know, brokers who wouldn't pay attention to us prior to first deal. Getting across the finish line. Now let's sudden they knew us, you know, and just like, Oh, hey, I heard you guys closed on that deal in Spartanburg. Yeah, that was us know, and completely different conversation. But you saw an opportunity, you jumped on it, you know, you raised some money. And I assume that sets you up for something bigger and better afterwards.

Timothy Lyons 15:19

Yeah, so we. So we did another two deals, we did 144 units in Greenville, South Carolina. And then we did 148 on a class property in Sarasota, Florida. And this was all like, really networking, right? We're in a budget for masterminds at this point. It's, it's hardcore. COVID. Right. So no one's meeting up. And we're doing, you know, on zoom calls, probably like you guys until midnight every night. And those organic relationships kind of led to those to the next two properties. So by November of 2020, Greg, and I were like, Look, you know, I'm in, you know, the New York City area, Greg is down in Virginia, we're never going to be boots on the ground, we're not going to be the construction team. You know, so what do we have to offer? What's going to secure our spot on the bench so that we can, you know, play the game? And it would talk to us it was capital raising? Yeah. And, you know, I just think, you know, with our connections growing up where we did, and I think, you know, Greg played college basketball. And, you know, I still work in New York City, we just have the means to raise capital, but we wanted to do it in a way that was not going to get us jammed up, right. I mean, let's be honest, you can't just raise capital, and then move on to the next deal. You got to have a material participation in the process. Right. So we had been introduced to a broker dealer who was involved in the multifamily space. And we It was kind of new to us, you know, we had a bunch of calls. And we finally said, you know, like, this is this is kind of made for us. So what we had to do, we had to take a bunch of exams with FINRA and the SEC, we had to onboard with the broker, which is basically a platform that brings together vetted sponsors and vetted capital raisers who are licensed, they're called registered representatives. And now we have a whole compliance team, we have a whole legal team, we have a whole underwriting team, which kind of is a value added to our investors, because not only does the operator underwrite the deal, and you know, they do the due diligence right? Now, our team, once they have the contract, we'll shoot out to the property will walk the property, we have a report done, we have underwriting double is double checked, and then only then do we put out the deal to our our investors. So it's it's a kind of a unique way to be involved in multifamily. But for what we're doing right now, with our w two jobs, and having the network that we have, it just made a lot of sense for us to kind of go down that route.

Brian Briscoe 17:48

Yeah, it's the safer route, you know, far as compliance goes, because you're going to be 100% compliant with with the certifications that you have. So, you know, from a from a sponsor perspective, you know, you're coming in with those, those certifications, it's a lot easier for bringing someone like you on board. So great, great story. I love it. We got to be moving on here real quick. So you briefly touched your big burning, why can be if you were to distill that down into you know, a couple of sentences. What's your big burning? Why is that code for stop talking so much, Brian? No, no, that's not code. I mean, I want to talk for the next hour. I mean, fascinating story. A lot of good stuff. And I know we both have, we both have hard stops at the end of the hour. So

Timothy Lyons 18:37

yeah, cool. Now the Why is really, it's really comes down to this, like, once I realized that time was my most valuable, you know, asset. And I have three little girls and I want to spend as much time as with them as possible. You know, when I had a little kids and people told me, you know, spend every minute you can with them that goes quick. And I was kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, you know, you kind of hear that from everybody. But all of a sudden, now I have a 10 year old I blinked and a 10 year old, you know, and, you know, in our line of work, you know, and I'm sure Brian, you can relate to this in a huge way. There's people do who don't come home at night. You know, those people who get maimed and hurt, and you know, there's cancer in the fire service that is skyrocketing, literally out of control. You know, for a long time they talked about I was 911 related, you know, yeah, yeah, he was on it for 911 he got cancer, and all of a sudden we're finding of the young guys who were probably teenagers or less, and on 911 these are the guys getting cancer, neck cancer, you know, colon cancer, this cancer, that cancer and, you know, once I started happening, I said, holy cow, I have to figure out a way that maybe I can leave the fire service after 20 years, you know, with my pension, God willing, it's still there and still solvent and my benefits right and then do something else. But I have to figure that out now because I want to be able to hit the ground running. So I think a combination You know, all that stuff and don't get me wrong, I love what I do. But I do recognize the inherent danger. Every time I gotta get in the car and go to work, you know. So without being too dramatic about that, it kind of played into my why. So it's really all it's not it's financial, yes, but it's really about time and health and just being able to have optionality in my life.

Brian Briscoe 20:21

Yeah, be Be careful. I blinked in my oldest is 22. And you know, never my second daughter's 19. But yeah, definitely, definitely want to spend time with your little kids while you can. We have a 10 year old eight year old and a daughter who turns six tomorrow. So no, it's it's brand new with them. So anyway, love it love everything about a lot of things in common with, you know, like you said, you know, very similar career paths, and a lot of ways where there's a lot of danger. There's a lot of people use don't come home, but there's a lot of time away from the family. What, anyway, what's next for you?

Timothy Lyons 20:57

Yeah, what's next for us is, um, you know, we're finally at the place where we can, you know, take a step back and really drive really dive, I just say, dive into marketing, and really kind of telling our story and getting it out there. Because for the longest time, it's just, it's us, right? It's us doing social media. It's us doing podcasts, and we just, we just started our podcast, we have three episodes in the bank, we haven't launched yet. But, you know, watch out for that. We're starting a YouTube channel. And you know, we're just getting dialed in, we're trying to, you know, bring the business to the next level. So that's really kind of what we're focused on for the next, at least two quarters.

Brian Briscoe 21:34

What's the podcast going to be named in Windsor? Gonna air?

Timothy Lyons 21:37

Yes. It's called the passive income brothers podcast, it's myself and my brother, Greg. And we're basically, you know, have no other investors who have you know, been on our journey, come tell their story, and really get out there. And because I just, I think that real estate as a marketing problem, like we talked about, and I think that, you know, once people know what's available to them, I think a lot more people would love to be involved with some of the stuff that, you know, we're all doing.

Brian Briscoe 22:04

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know, you know, all the benefits. And I think what you said earlier, you know, the, there's a real perception that real estate investing is go to that conference, and three weeks later, you're driving the Mazda rod, you know, which anybody with, you know, half a brain gonna look at that and say, it's too good to be true. And you know, that that whole story, right? There is too good to be true in most cases, but I'm sure there's a couple people who've done it. But anyway, it will be time to shift gears a little bit, and we're going to bring Dan on the show. So Dan, welcome to the show today. Thanks for having me, Brian. It's great to meet you, too, Tim. Likewise, all right. Well, then why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you into real estate investing?

Dan Fradenburgh 22:45

Sure. So I've had quite the unusual career myself, changing a few times have been a teacher and whatnot. But what brought me to real estate was my first I always forget if it's mo Cromer monochrome, of success, whatever the thing is, but I got some sort of level of success through technology, because I worked for Specifically, it was for one shopping cart calm, which is an e commerce, mall, marketing software that people use for their online businesses. And so I created an agency helping people integrate their website, and later on, you know, do social media and whatnot, and build that into an online funnel, whether it's lead capture or outreach or sales funnels, live event, sales funnels, and things like that. And basically, if you are an ambitious person, and you know, you keep on trying to make your way to higher earners, and a better name for yourself, all roads do lead to real estate. So for me, that happened when my biggest client, which was a single family, residential firm, ended up buying out all 40 of my hours every single week. And that made me go, it's like, Okay, well, how is he affording this? Like, how can you How can you even do that, and so I learned as much as I could about single family, flipping, and wholesaling, and all that kind of stuff. So that I felt confident that I'd be able to do it. But the disadvantage I had is I'm mister remote. You know, like when I was running that Ohio firm for a while, at least the digital side, I was doing that from Taiwan. So if I'm not going to be physically present, and I'm not going to be flying down there all the time, then spot checking a bunch of single family houses makes zero sense. So when I saw my boss making the move over to multifamily, mentioning that there's more money going around so so basically, we can hire the operators to make sure that somebody is is making it work. That's something that really fits my profile and my ambition and and things like And so I've been doing all sorts of social media and content creation to make all that work just like you're describing, Tim.

Brian Briscoe 25:09

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So So you saw, it's like your boss is making a lot of money from it. And, you know, naturally just started asking questions, your inquisitive mind, which I know you have a very inquisitive mind, you're just like, how are you doing this? How are you affording this? And multifamily? was the answer. That's, it's great. So I know you're doing a lot from Taiwan, you know, I think you make a good point. And that's a long plane, plane ride to check single family property. So, you know, where are you now? And what's your what's your, what's your plan for investing here?

Dan Fradenburgh 25:41

Okay, so right now I'm up in Ottawa, Canada. And my, my angle to get in is that there's so much you know, like, Tim, you were mentioning about the marketing problem in real estate. And me, because, you know, I studied electrical engineering, I think there's just a technology problem in real estate full stop. So it's not even just marketing, it's, you know, people running their entire business off of Excel sheets, when a program solution will make it so that, you know, nobody, you know, deletes a formula in cell C six, or something like that, and messes up everything for everybody and doesn't get diagnosed for months and months and months. So what I'm doing to get my foot in the door, and co GP with people, is to help with those marketing services in the content creation, but also create the esops as the, you know, standard operating procedures for, for operations in general, whether it's keeping track of maintenance inventory, or whatever it is, basically, I want to make every job that usually takes a half an hour, an hour, an hour and a half, and either automated or reduce it down to like five minutes, just so you can do more, including the acquisition, funnel itself. And actually, underwriting deals and whatnot.

Brian Briscoe 27:05

Amazing. That's absolutely amazing. So, yeah, I mean, a lot of I think you're absolutely right, you know, a lot of people in this industry are in the Stone Age, so to speak, you know, we are using the Excel spreadsheets, which, you know, very, very, like 1990s type stuff. But, I mean, Excel has been updated a couple of times since, yes. But and there's still a lot of operators that are operating very low tech, you know, partially because they don't know, and partially because sometimes the tech solutions are a little more expensive than they can they can justify. But yeah, I think there's a lot of room for that, especially as we get into the future. And, you know, especially as you know, the generation that is my children, you know, get to the same because they're very tech savvy, and they're going to jump on that stuff. And I think that's, that's one of the next revolutions in multifamily investing is the tech revolution. So that said, Dan, we got Tim on the line here, where you want to ask him,

Dan Fradenburgh 27:58

Well, I got a few things that that came to mind. And most of it is actually about about firefighting. But I'll start with, I want to hit on something you guys were talking about earlier about the price of education, and balancing that with the importance of it. And the big one for me is my experience in Asia, one of the nice parts of that is I was able to interact a lot with with different stratas of, you know, like, basically wealth. And I was I was able to see it's okay, so where are these guys doing to ensure that their kids succeed? And, and one of the things I'll do is, like, for example, Taipei American School is just a normal average English school, you know, elementary school, high school, all that kind of stuff. They use the American curriculum, they do have American teachers, and they're teaching all of it in English, but it costs 40k a year in intuition. And, you know, when I was watching that, when I found that out, I'm going like, how, like, what, what did they expect this kid to do for a living, that they're going to be making up that 40k per year deficit that they're they're doing from from age six to age 18, that a lot of people aren't? And, and now, I'm pretty clear on the answer for that, which is just, you know, the parents are going, it's like, well, I can't I can't do it myself. And they know who you meet, you know, your network is your net worth. So you know, yes, they will absolutely get it and I'm sure that real estate is going to be a way that they recoup it. But I guess now that I say it, that's more of a statement than a than a question. But what gives so as far as questions go in a place that says densely populated as New York, like how many fires are there per week, that your station would be responding answerable for?

Timothy Lyons 30:01

Yeah, I mean, it's like feast or famine, right? I mean, it could be zero for the week, or we could have say, I don't know, eight or nine or 10 for the week, you know, I mean, so it's, it's really kind of up to anybody. But usually, I mean, I think we do about, I don't know, 80 to 100 fires per year. So it's on the busier end of the spectrum as far as it goes for, for New York City. You know, luckily, these days, you know, there's fire protection systems sprinklers and automatic fire alarms, and everybody has a cell phone. So the minute somebody has a sniff of something, you know, where they're in, you know, under four minutes, so, but I'm sure you see them on TV, you know, we get some pretty good ones, you know?

Brian Briscoe 30:46

Yeah, yeah. attic ones on TV. Right,

Dan Fradenburgh 30:49

right. Yeah. It reminds me of that that diehard movie was Samuel Jackson in New York about how it's like, Yeah, well, if everybody had a phone, it's everything would be different. But how often? How often do these fires spread to multiple units, though, because like that will tell me like where we are technologically. As far as like, you know, if one person burns dinner, the whole building doesn't go down. But how often is it like a multiple unit fire.

Timothy Lyons 31:17

I mean, usually, like, we have a lot of like, six storey six and seven storey old brick buildings, you know, the old tenement houses. And, you know, mostly they stay within that one apartment. But you know, because they have brick knocking in between the apartments and stuff like that. But there's all different types of buildings, usually the fire when the heat goes up, so if there's a floor above, they're usually the ones that will get the, the extension. But you know, it all comes down to the how fast you put water on that fire. And New York City prides itself on an aggressive interior attack. So, you know, it's not for everybody, but when there's a fire to go put out, we go right to the seat of the fire, and we go put that bad boy out, you know. But you know, every once in a while, it's hard. You know, I mean, there's people on top of people's that means there's a lot of stuff everywhere, sometimes our access, and our egress is, you know, not not ideal, I'll put it that way. And then it just kind of takes off a firewall, double, you know, in size every, every couple of minutes, you know. So

Dan Fradenburgh 32:17

that's interesting, and then going bigger to, to what you were mentioning before. And so this is, this is definitely more of a personal thing for me. Because, you know, I'm mentioning that the way I'm getting my foot in the door in these deals is through marketing, and and tech and streamlining as well as acquisition. There's one problem with if I'm helping acquisitions, that I can actually only help, you know, what do you want to call it the the umbrella company, rather than the LLC, that's for a particular property? Because like, how do you justify that expense otherwise, so so I think that investors are looking for partners, really, like if they were going to be as honest as they possibly could. They're looking for people who will be there when the going gets tough. And you were mentioning about switching over to the world of zoom. And I've been I've been working from home for 10 years now. So this stuff is as normal for me as it's ever going to get for anybody. But I think most people aren't used to gauging that level of commitment. When you're interacting online. You're used to doing it in person. But I think that presents a unique challenge. And personally, I put a lot of faith in what I hear other people say when they're not around me. In other words, like what I hear through the grapevine, I assume that they're probably telling me a little bit more truth than then if I'm talking to them personally. But I hear that most capys will require a financial commitment from everyone on the GP team, and, and that you're using it basically as a proxy as a proxy for demonstrating commitment. What have you guys found about that? Because Because for me, it's like if I'm, if I'm looking to code GP, I'm concerned that the people don't usually have a portion designated for that piece of the of the deal, that piece of the puzzle, that promotion, that marketing and whatnot. And so you have any thoughts about that, guys?

Timothy Lyons 34:16

Yeah, I think it all just comes down to negotiation. And there's a billion ways to set up any kind of partnership, right? So, you know, commercial real estate, and specifically multifamily is a team sport. There's no two ways about it. So there's a ton of people that have strengths, and some people are better than other things, and to some other people. And I think once all that kind of comes together, and you build out your team, and then you'll hear every guru out there will talk about building a team and it's true. It's just one of those things you have to have. With that being said, You know, I know somebody who is a marketing guru expert, and she gets her GP by doing marketing and social media and automations and, you know, all that stuff. So I would just say that anything is negotiable within real estate, there's always a way to set up a partnership. It's just, you know, what value, I think, you know, is assigned to that kind of task. Brian, what do you have to say about that? You know,

Brian Briscoe 35:19

I see the same, it's all about adding value, you know, and whether whether you're financially involved or not, I don't think that it is an indicator of commitment is not the only indicator of commitment, and there's ways to negotiate, you know, different slices of the pie, you know, based on how much value you bring to the table, end of the day, it's, it's a matter of, can you provide value to the team, and if you can provide value to the team, you know, you're going to be able to negotiate a piece of the pie that works for you and works for, for the team. And, you know, KPIs, you know, every Kp has a different different approach to how they're putting deals together and what they're requiring from progress the GP and end of the day, you may find one that requires everybody to have skin in the game, but another one will have different requirements completely. So just a matter of networking, and finding, finding the right group, the right team. And in your case, it would be, you know, several different sponsors that you could potentially work with. Right, right.

Dan Fradenburgh 36:22

Yeah, thanks, guys. The only other things I wrote down were more sentiments than anything else, you know, just like talking about how like lockdown was just such a vastly different experience for me, because I, you know, like working from home all the time, it meant that instead of going out three times a week, it dropped to two, and then it dropped to one. And, you know, didn't really make that big of a difference. But I felt horrible for everybody who is learning to work from home, because like making an office that your home office that you're actually comfortable with, that's really tough. That took a long time to start getting things where it's like, everything's perfect and efficient and whatnot with three screens and all that.

Brian Briscoe 37:08

It's a definitely my, my retirement gift to myself was my home office, I got the little stand up, sit up, you know, sit down desk, push button, and there we go. So I love that anyway, if you're watching on YouTube, you know, you just saw my desk go up. But anyway, that said, you know, thanks. We'll wrap things up here. But thanks. Thanks, guys, for coming on this show. And then I love the line of questioning. I actually talked to an insurance expert yesterday, and a lot of things that you're talking about with the fires specifically, you know, if you can nail a solution for that, you can really help insurance rates, which still hits the bottom line, you know, it definitely hits that bottom line. So anyway, I said, Tim, question for you. And Daniel, we have the same question next, how can listeners learn more about you?

Timothy Lyons 37:56

Well, number one, I just want to say I'm grateful for the opportunity, Brian, to come on to your show. And I hope that your listeners, you know, gain some value out of this conversation. I know I sure had a great time. So but yeah, you guys can find me on my website. It's cityside And my email address is just simply Tim at cityside cap calm, I was fortunate enough to be a co author of a number one Amazon bestseller, so you can get a free copy on the homepage of that website.

Brian Briscoe 38:25

All right, and we'll put links to your email address and your website in the show notes. So anybody who's interested, go straight down to the show notes, tap swipe, you should be able to tap and contact him or go straight to the website. Dan sent a question for you. how can listeners learn more about you?

Dan Fradenburgh 38:41

Alright, so the best places, especially if you are in commercial real estate would be LinkedIn. Just finding my profile. I'm the only Dan friedenberg like pretty much on Earth.

Brian Briscoe 38:52

That really really

Dan Fradenburgh 38:53

right and but as far as what I have on offer for people to check out if you if you look me up on YouTube, you're gonna find a ton of content, including the Dan does videos and figure it out, you know, I got my book out there all sorts of stuff. I got so many videos and things. And some of them are for well, due to bad language and content there they you could make an argument that they're 18 plus.

Brian Briscoe 39:28

Definitely, I've listened to some of them. And I mean, you've got the figured out channel is pretty cool. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. And anybody interested definitely check it out. link up with him on LinkedIn. And there we go. So once again, thank you to both of you guys for coming on the show today. Appreciate your time and this was a lot of fun.

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